http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ Daily Kitten Chat Forum User Favorites: Shakira en Tue, 14 Feb 2012 19:17:37 +0000 http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-560504 Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:16:02 +0000 furryfriends50 560504@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>Here is a thread on another forum with several other people's menus:</p> <p><a href="http://www.catforum.com/forum/62-raw-food-diet/134857-what-does-your-menu-look-like.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.catforum.com/forum/62-raw-food-diet/134857-what-does-your-menu-look-like.html</a></p> <p>If you have any questions about feeding raw that forum is also a very good place to ask :) </p> <p>________</p> <p>Unless you want to feed organic meat feeding a raw diet is much cheaper than even feeding canned. I'd guess that a day for feeding my cats raw costs $6 which is an overestimate. So $6 devided by 18 cats is $0.30 per cat a day (granted, I just did the math in my head which is a very scary thing ;) </p> <p>I do feed free range chicken necks which are only $0.99 a lb here. No one wants the necks so they are cheap! Rajah's lamb heart is "free range and organic" and if I feed lamb liver or kidney those are also. The rest is what I can get from the grocery store. </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-560501 Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:10:50 +0000 furryfriends50 560501@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>First off, I am feeding "frankenprey" style raw. </p> <p>I am feeding 18 cats a raw diet - soon to be 22 cats. One of them has a seperate menu from everyone else because he has specific likes/dislikes and eats twice as much! The rest split 3 lbs of raw between them a day. I don't measure the amounts of organs anymore and instead just eyeball the amounts. It works for us! </p> <p>The 17 cats who share the 3 lbs of meat a day would probably have a combined wieght of 180 lbs. </p> <p>I'll get whatever meat is on sale for $2 or less. So the cuts of beef and pork vary a lot. Beef can be anything from something like 7-Bone Steak's (which is one of the cheapest cuts available here) to New York Steak. The cuts of pork will vary that much as well. </p> <p>I feed 2 lbs of plain unflavored yogurt every other week. That is just a personal choice and works best for my cats. A lot of mine have a problem with feline herpes and getting the yogurt will help get rid of their symptoms.</p> <p>The meals of egg + ground beef or yogurt + ground beef: The entire meal in those cases is about 4 lbs, half of which would be the yogurt or egg and half of which is the ground beef. For the meals with egg I will cook the white but leave the yolk raw.</p> <p>Also, I feed once a day, which is not ideal. However the farm cats who are getting the raw have eaten once a day for nearly their entire lives. They are just used to eating that often - if I try feed an hour early they aren't hungry.</p> <p>So, here is the rest of my menu for the month (note: I wrote this August 15 so at that point it was "the rest of the month"):</p> <p>August 15:<br /> Chicken breast/ribs, beef liver<br /> Rajah: Beef, beef liver </p> <p>August 16:<br /> Turkey Drumstick Meat, Beef Kidney<br /> Rajah: Lamb Heart, Beef Kidney </p> <p>August 17:<br /> Pork<br /> Rajah: Cornish Game Hen </p> <p>August 18:<br /> Chicken Necks, Beef Liver<br /> Rajah: Pork, Chicken Giblets </p> <p>August 19:<br /> Beef, Beef Kidney<br /> Rajah: Beef, Beef Kidney </p> <p>August 20:<br /> Chicken Giblets/Hearts<br /> Rajah: Turkey Drumstick Meat</p> <p>August 21:<br /> Chicken Necks, Beef Liver<br /> Rajah: Chicken Neck, Beef Liver</p> <p>August 22:<br /> Beef Heart, Beef Kidney<br /> Rajah: Lamb Heart, Beef Kidney </p> <p>August 23:<br /> Egg + Ground Beef<br /> Rajah: Beef </p> <p>August 24:<br /> Chicken Necks, Beef Liver<br /> Rajah: Cornish Game Hen, Beef Liver </p> <p>August 25:<br /> Turkey Drumstick Meat, Beef Kidney<br /> Rajah: Chicken Giblets, Pork, Beef Kidney </p> <p>August 26:<br /> Pork<br /> Rajah: Turkey</p> <p>August 27:<br /> Chicken Necks, Chicken Liver<br /> Rajah: Chicken Necks, Chicken Liver </p> <p>August 28:<br /> Beef, Beef Kidney<br /> Rajah: Beef, Beef Kidney</p> <p>August 29:<br /> Chicken Giblets/Heart<br /> Rajah: Lamb Heart </p> <p>August 30:<br /> Chicken Drumsticks, Beef Liver<br /> Rajah: Cornish Game Hen, Beef Liver </p> <p>August 31:<br /> Yogurt + Ground Pork, Sweetbreads<br /> Rajah: Turkey, Sweetbreads</p> <p>I feed each cat a sardine (packed in water w/ no salt added) a week. However I am considering using raw smelt instead. At least I think it is called smelt...</p> <p>Mine have some wierd tastes as well and enjoy eating fish oil capsules which I will give as a treat once or twice a week. </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-560499 Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:57:24 +0000 Momma Bear 560499@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>If you don't mind I would like your "menu" I am very inspired by this. In the past my boys were fed only dry (medium quality, all I can afford) with a shared can of medium quality wet food once a week as a treat. I have started letting them share half a can of wet food daily, supplemented with dry. In the past week they have been getting more wet food, half in the morning half at night and a small amount of dry which keeps them satisfied. Today while at Petsmart I decided I would try some of the higher quality wet food. I got Authority and Avoderm. They had authority for supper and LOVED it. It also smelled and looked decent and less...fake for lack of a better word. Once I do enough research and am able financially to switch them over I'll do before and "during" pictures too! Is there a certain age they should be before trying this? My guys are still kittens (4 months) </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-560423 Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:48:56 +0000 furryfriends50 560423@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>I actually make my own "frankenprey" raw. It is also much cheaper to make your own - and healthier for the cats as well as premade stuff tends to have to much bone (making for consitipated cats) as well as added veggies/fruit which cats have no need for. When you make it yourself you also get control over the ingrediants which is another added bonus. Most premade stuff is also ground which does not do anything for a cats teeth.</p> <p>Frankenprey raw simply means that you are, in a sense, making your own mouse. You want to feed 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% kidney/other secreting organ - which is really what a mouse is made up of. The more variety of meat the better though it is best to feed meat from an herbivore. If you can't get meat from a grass fed animal you do need to supplement with a sardine a week for omega-3...you can also use salmon oil (or fish oil...just make sure that it is a named fish listed in the ingrediants). </p> <p>Could she be making it on her own but only using ground meat? Some people tend to think that all you need is meat - when it is completly unbalanced then. But if she was feeding the right amounts of things the cat should look very healthy. The bad teeth is probably because it is ground - feeding frankenprey will clean a cats teeth (as will whole prey) but ground doesn't. </p> <p>It isn't hard to make a balanced raw diet yourself; it is actually suprisingly easy. Okay, so it isn't as easy as opening up a can of food but it is worth it a hundred times over IMO :)</p> <p>If anyone wants I can post my "menu" for an example of what mine are getting.</p> <p>I'll sometimes take some of the meat and cook it for myself. Sometimes they will get some really nice looking steak so I'll take some of that. Or if I give them chicken breast I'll cut off some of the meat for myself...just don't tell them I said that!!! </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-560243 Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:20:25 +0000 jeankit 560243@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>Bootiful kits...do you get what is on their daily menu too, but cooked?/cornish game hen etc! </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-560241 Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:14:51 +0000 JaxDuckyChloe 560241@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>FF50 your cats are so beautiful. I do have another question about raw feeding. I don't know if I have said this before but if I have sorry for getting more info from you on this. My aunt raw feeds her cat and she just looks horrible. I know she has been on it for over a year but her fur is just so dull and her teeth look horrible. My aunt doesn't feed her anything other then raw anymore which is kinda why I am hesitent on possibly starting my boys on that sort of diet. Do you know why her cat might look so bad on the diet. I do not know what kinda raw food she is feeding her or if she might be doing somethig differnt with the raw diet. I really can't ask her as I havn't talked to her in quite a while but I might be able to get my mom to ask her next time they talk to find out what she feeds her and where she gets it from. We live in the same town so if she does go somewhere to get the food I want to make sure I do not go there. I did look online and it seems that there are a few places in Oregon that sell raw food that I would like to check out when I have some money. Thankfully Oregon isn't far from me, its less then 15 min for me to get there from where I'm at so I don't mind driving over to check it out. </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-560231 Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:35:59 +0000 katthays 560231@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>They are beautiful!!!! </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-560227 Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:14:47 +0000 Buttercup 560227@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>FF50, Your kitties look so sleek and beautiful!! Wow! </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-560218 Thu, 19 Aug 2010 09:52:48 +0000 furryfriends50 560218@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>Momma Bear, it took me a while to get used too cutting up meat...especially liver. I had to have someone around when I was cutting meat to make sure I didn't faint...and I cam close to fainting the first few times lol! Now I am fine with cutting up any sort of meat. If you are ranting then I do that every single day :) </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-560008 Wed, 18 Aug 2010 20:43:18 +0000 Momma Bear 560008@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>Oh wow FF50! Your cats look absolutely amazing! I have seen you post on other threads advocating a raw diet, but this is the best kind of proof. These cats look so healthy and shiny and gorgeous I'm in shock. I'm a long time vegetarian so the thought of giving the boys chunks of chicken kind of grosses me out..even wet food smells terrible to me but I will ask my hubs if he will maybe help with food-prep because your cats look so good and I want my boys to be just as healthy. What inspiration! Sorry to rant, I must sound like a lunatic but I'm truly impressed. I'll definitely look into it, thanks for posting! </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-559886 Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:27:01 +0000 Mittens 559886@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>All the kits look wonderful. All sleek aandbeautiful. I started Rocky on raw for his allergies and skin problems. It was amazing how his skin cleared up and his fur became sleek and glossy. Mittens likes her raw chicken finely minced so she still gets a high quality kibble. The raw food really really makes a differance.</p> <p>Thanks FF50 for sharing your knowledge with us. Keep up the great work! </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-559847 Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:12:10 +0000 furryfriends50 559847@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>Thanks, I am very happy with how they are doing especially considering how some of them looked before I started feeding raw. Even the ones that I though were healthy have changed so much (for the better)! So much for cats calming down after kittenhood lol! Now they are running around all the time with a 1/2 second attention span...</p> <p>Even Rajah (15 year old Bengal) now has the energy of a kitten. Considering he was going to be put down at the shelter because of his condition and age he really has changed :) </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-559590 Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:44:20 +0000 AZDEBRA 5/27 & crew 559590@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>FF50, beautiful cats, love their coats and general over all good looking selves. </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-559585 Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:10:55 +0000 Moonshadow_NZ 559585@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>FF, all the cats look great, lovely coats on them. Go raw!!!!! </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-559584 Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:02:20 +0000 krazikat 559584@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>Gorgeous healthy coats on all your kits FF50. I am smitten with Lynx, I love his swagger in the above picture. </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/29218#post-559583 Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:56:05 +0000 furryfriends50 559583@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/storm.jpg">Storm</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/stormeatingbeefkidney.jpg">Storm Eating Beef Kidney</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/shadow.jpg">Shadow</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/rajaheating.jpg">Rajah Eating 1/4 Cornish Game Hen (he has been on all raw for 3 months)</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/panther.jpg">Panther</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/MO.jpg">Mo</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/Missy.jpg">Missy</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/lynx.jpg">Lynx</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/liplickingood.jpg">Rajah - Cornish Game Hen is Lip Lickin' Good</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/jack.jpg">Jack</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/haddie.jpg">Haddie</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/crystal.jpg">Crystal</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/Clover.jpg">Clover</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/chester.jpg">Chester</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/buddy.jpg">Buddy</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/blizzard.jpg">Blizzard</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/AMIGA.jpg">Amiga</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/allieeating.jpg">Allie Eating Bone-In Pork Chunk </a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/allieating2.jpg">Allie Eating Bone-In Pork Chunk...eating all but the bone (the bone is too big)</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/aimee.jpg">Aimee</a></p> <p><a href="http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/furryfriends50/raw%20feeding%201%20year/tuckeredoutJill.jpg">Jill</a> </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-438048 Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:32:23 +0000 furryfriends50 438048@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>i don't have any dogs, though there is a small wild dog pack right now roaming around that will sometimes show up at the farm, if i see them i go in the barn and keep all the doors closed though. they have already tried to attack a few people...trying to get the humane society to help but they don't seem concerned. they said they'd come set traps when they had time, you'd think they would have had time over the last month...</p> <p>plenty of people feed their dogs raw too however, though you don't have to worry about taurine with dogs since they can produce their own. i think they get the same 80/10/5/5 ratio as cats do.</p> <p>i don't know if it would help asthma, i know it can turn around things as serious as diabetes so i'd say that there is a good chance anyway that it would help. </p> <p>cats only need 2-4% of their body wieght in raw meat a day. i feed 4% but that is because they are outdoors and have to keep warm. they eat way less when they eat raw!</p> <p>thanks! </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-437981 Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:19:16 +0000 eleniki 437981@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>This is fantastic FF, thank you so much. It all makes complete sense. You are such a great carer for your animals. Do you have dogs at all? I don't see them mentioned on your profile. Just wondered what your take on dog nutrition might be, if you have dogs. I know their requirements are not as taurine-specific as cats'.<br /> There is much food for thought in your post, and naturally I have it in my favourites. I have also forwarded the thread link to a friend or two, who I am in the process of persuading to think more seriously and health-consciously about what they feed their fur companions.</p> <p>One last question (for now!) - my older kitten, 11 months, has mild to moderate asthma. I have just treated her with a homeopathic remedy, and have so far reduced her inhaler from two to one puff a day. I'm going to see how she does, as I know homeopathy takes a while to show results sometimes. Do you think a raw diet could actively benefit a condition such as asthma, which was very likely triggered by a maize based litter she used for some months as a young kitten? I think I have removed all likely allergic triggers (although that is probably impossible, once a sensitivity is there) but I am interested to see if a raw diet could contribute to eradicating the asthma.</p> <p>Thank you again - I appreciate this information so much, and will read and re-read it, plus the superb website links you posted. </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-437948 Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:14:20 +0000 furryfriends50 437948@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>---Bones - I am afraid that my kits will choke on small bones, that they have no experience of them and will try to swallow small chicken or rabbit bones without pulverising them enough with their teeth.---</p> <p>easy and really small bones to start out with are chicken ribs. leave the meat attached since then they have to chew the meat and it helps to keep the bones more hidden which helps cautious cats eat them. young chicken thighs are a bigger bone so a cat would have to chew them, none of mine have a problem eating them. for chicken thighs though cats like it better if they are a smashed so that they can taste the marrow better which helps them realize that yes they can really eat it. chicken necks are also a good one if you can find them. cornish game hens have tiny bones which are great if just starting a cat on raw. however you have to be careful with bones and not going over the 10% a day, all the days mine get bones they also get a dime sized piece of liver since to many bones can cause a cat to get consitipated and livers make them get the runs sometimes a bone with liver evens both out.</p> <p>when feeding bone it is best to supervise to make sure no one gets a piece stuck in their mouth. most of the time if one of mine has a problem they just spit out the meat/bone and go at it again. the real risk of having a cat choking is when they are fed cooked bones, raw bonees are no problem.</p> <p>now that mine are more used to eating raw they LOVE turkey drumsticks because the bones are big and if i break the bone in half there is lots of marrow for them to have. they don't actually try conquer the bone but love the marrow that is inside. a bit of a bloody mess but oh well.</p> <p>---This link: <a href="http://www.felinefuture.com/?p=1193" rel="nofollow">http://www.felinefuture.com/?p=1193</a> which I included in another tread about commercial cat foods is a powdered blend of essential minerals, vitamins, amino acids, and fatty acids, providing all the ingredients you would otherwise have to buy as capsules, powders, and pills to add to your raw meat as instructed in a recipe. I have just received my first order of it, and am now going to add it to some raw meat/liver/heart. The great thing about it is I don't have to be completely specific in which parts of raw I use. What do you think of this premix FF?---</p> <p>i personally don't use a premix but it would be a good idea if you can't get everything needed for a raw diet (for me the tricky part is finding kidneys). so i think it would be a good idea but i can't find that kind of thing around here. if feeding a variety of meats then cats will get all the vitamins and minerals they need. i do add extra taurine (there isn't such thing as too much taurine, what cats don't need comes out the other end) and 3000mg salmon oil to each four pounds of meat i feed to try up the omega3 they are getting. fatty acids are found in chicken fat so if you feed some of that every few days (like around a few teaspoon) and add three - four drops of salmon oil to each meal you don't have to worry much about fatty acids. i also sometimes will suplement with plain flavored yogurt for the good bacteria in it just to be on the safe side. also some people will feed one meal a week of sardines so that the cats can get those oils/fatty acids from the fish as well. i don't just because buying sardines would get expensive but for just a few cats it is fine. however it is safest to only feed fish as one meal per week.</p> <p>---In her book 'Raising Cats Naturally' Michelle Bernard tries to steer readers towards feeding their cats chicken, rabbit, turkey and so on, rather than the bigger meat such as beef and lamb, on the grounds that these may be closer to what they would be able to feed on in the wild (although she says mouse would be best, but hard to get). What do you think about this FF? Also, in the Feline Future website, Natascha Wille puts chicken, turkey and rabbit top of her list, and says beef is fine once the cats become used to raw, but that lamb is fatty and therefore harder on the digestion. What do you think about that?---</p> <p>I fed a variety of meats because i feel that differant meats have a differant set of nutrients in them. feeding a variety of meats should cover all the needed nutrients. sometimes cats can not tolerate the bigger animal meats (beef, lamb, venison) and that is probably be because that is not what they would be eating naturally. i have not been able to find a source of raw rabbit however rabbit doesn't have much taurine (have you ever read about pottinger's cats <a href="http://fnes.org/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=17:proper-feeding-from-pottengers-cats&amp;catid=1:raw-feeding&amp;Itemid=3" rel="nofollow">http://fnes.org/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=17:proper-feeding-from-pottengers-cats&amp;catid=1:raw-feeding&amp;Itemid=3</a>) yes random but i just thought of that because of rabbit. </p> <p>because of what they would be most likely eating it is safer to start out with meats like chicken, turkey, or smaller animals. my personal feeling is the more variety the better but introduce variety after cats are used to eating raw so when feeding not much variety it would be best to supplement with the powder you mentioned.</p> <p>---Today I bought some liver for my cats, but I could only get lamb's liver. Michelle Bernard says to try to match the liver you feed with the meat you're feeding in that particular meal. Do you think lamb's liver would also be too rich and fatty for my cats if lamb meat is? There is also a freeze dried liver pack that I ordered from Feline Future, and you can add that to the meat if you can't get liver. I got the chicken liver one, but there is also a beef liver pack.---</p> <p>try the lamb liver, your cats are better judges of whether if it is to rich ;) your lucky you can find lamb liver, the only thing i can get is beef and chicken liver. what i prefer to do when feeding liver since i have so many cats is turn it into little tiny chunks by cutting it with a scissors till it is almost juice. liver will sometimes make cats get the runs, however it is really hard to overdose on liver though it is possible. 5% liver is about perfect for a raw diet, so a dime sized piece or less is just about right a day. though it would be convienent to have some freeze dried liver and i think that it would work to use that as well. </p> <p>i try to stick with meals from the same types of animals. if i feed beef steak they also get heart, liver, and kidneys. chicken i use to make sure they are getting enough bones and i will add chicken kidney's and hearts to those meals. other meals i don't use any bones or livers/kidneys. i try to make it balanced over a weeks time vs. everyday. </p> <p>---Have you eradicated kibble entirely from your cats' diets? I hate it and I know it is dreadful stuff (kitty crack, as Tracie Hotchner, author of the Cat Bible, calls it) but I still sometimes give it to my kits as a treat, or to get them to come if I want them...)---</p> <p>i still give some kibble since mine LOVE it. i give very high calorie kibble like EVO to be on the safe side especially in colder weather because i want to make sure they are getting enough calories a day. it is much safer though to only feed kibble after they have finished the raw since raw digests at a differant and a bit faster speed then kibble and you don't want the raw to be stuck behind the kibble because then you could run into possible salmonella. i only though feed kibble for the calories that it adds. </p> <p>a good bribe is freeze dried meat if you want to stick completly to a raw diet. more companies are coming out with freeze dried meat as treats.</p> <p>---Do you think cats teeth benefit from brushing, even when they regularly chew on raw chunks and bones? Some Raw advocates recommend regular brushing as well.---</p> <p>if they are eating raw i don't see the point in brushing. raw meat cleans cats teeth really well, however for cats that aren't chewing as much as they should they could get tarter and then it would be best to start brushing as well. RMB's (raw meat bones) really help clean cats teeth because the have to tear the meat off of the bone. none of the farm cats that let me look in their mouths have any sort of plaque build up anymore compared to almost yellow teeth before starting raw.</p> <p>---Organic meat minimum 60% - Organic Chicken (30%), Organic Beef (15%), Organic Turkey (10%), Organic Pork (5%), Organic Carrots 4%, Organic Dandelion, Organic Nettle, Organic Spirulina, Carageenan, Taurine, Minerals, Vitamin E (alpha tocopherol) 20mg/kg. By using the highest quality raw material this meal provides just the right amount of Vitamin A and D3 your cat needs.</p> <p>Nutritional Breakdown:<br /> Typical values per 100g<br /> Protein 10%<br /> Fat 5.5%<br /> Fibre 0.3%<br /> Ash 2%<br /> Moisture 82%</p> <p>Grain-free.<br /> Certified Organic and Holistic.---</p> <p>i think it looks great! lots of meat. no plant materials aren't needed but i don't know of cat food without any.</p> <p>---Michelle Bernard would say that there is no need for all the plant matter - what is your take on that? (I think I would tend to agree with her, though I know cats eat grass when they feel the need to purge).</p> <p>Sorry this is long, and I hope I am not imposing too much on your time. I know this is a particular area of expertise for you. Thanks! ---</p> <p>i don't think there is any need for a cat to eat plant matter either - they only can use meat and it is what they can digest. however i keep grass available for mine to eat if they want to, it helps them get rid of hairballs. i have to grow the grass in the largest size litterbox that i can find since there are so many cats. i have thre differant litterboxes, one for each feeding place. i think keeping grass avaiable for cats to eat is a great idea since it naturally helps them get rid of hairballs, even if i don't like finding a wad of wet grass/hairball by stepping on it!</p> <p>hope this helps and feel free to ask any more questions you have :D also tell me if this makes sense cause else i can try expain it differantly, i type how i think and that can be a bad combination ;) </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-437883 Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:24:53 +0000 eleniki 437883@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>Furryfriends, I hope you don't mind me asking you a few questions on the topic of Raw. I watched the video of Mo, and it was beautiful! I mean that - such a good sight and sound of a healthy cat relishing great raw steak! </p> <p>My questions:<br /> Bones - I am afraid that my kits will choke on small bones, that they have no experience of them and will try to swallow small chicken or rabbit bones without pulverising them enough with their teeth.</p> <p>This link: <a href="http://www.felinefuture.com/?p=1193" rel="nofollow">http://www.felinefuture.com/?p=1193</a> which I included in another tread about commercial cat foods is a powdered blend of essential minerals, vitamins, amino acids, and fatty acids, providing all the ingredients you would otherwise have to buy as capsules, powders, and pills to add to your raw meat as instructed in a recipe. I have just received my first order of it, and am now going to add it to some raw meat/liver/heart. The great thing about it is I don't have to be completely specific in which parts of raw I use. What do you think of this premix FF?</p> <p>In her book 'Raising Cats Naturally' Michelle Bernard tries to steer readers towards feeding their cats chicken, rabbit, turkey and so on, rather than the bigger meat such as beef and lamb, on the grounds that these may be closer to what they would be able to feed on in the wild (although she says mouse would be best, but hard to get). What do you think about this FF? Also, in the Feline Future website, Natascha Wille puts chicken, turkey and rabbit top of her list, and says beef is fine once the cats become used to raw, but that lamb is fatty and therefore harder on the digestion. What do you think about that?</p> <p>Today I bought some liver for my cats, but I could only get lamb's liver. Michelle Bernard says to try to match the liver you feed with the meat you're feeding in that particular meal. Do you think lamb's liver would also be too rich and fatty for my cats if lamb meat is? There is also a freeze dried liver pack that I ordered from Feline Future, and you can add that to the meat if you can't get liver. I got the chicken liver one, but there is also a beef liver pack.</p> <p>Have you eradicated kibble entirely from your cats' diets? I hate it and I know it is dreadful stuff (kitty crack, as Tracie Hotchner, author of the Cat Bible, calls it) but I still sometimes give it to my kits as a treat, or to get them to come if I want them...)</p> <p>Do you think cats teeth benefit from brushing, even when they regularly chew on raw chunks and bones? Some Raw advocates recommend regular brushing as well.</p> <p>And finally, as you are so knowledgeable on ingredients, can you tell me what you think of the ingredients of the organic cat food (Lily's Kitchen, a UK product) that I have been feeding my two in their short lives so far. They adore this food, by the way, but it's not stopping me make the transition to Raw. Here's the list of ingredients in their chicken dinner:</p> <p>Organic meat minimum 60% - Organic Chicken (30%), Organic Beef (15%), Organic Turkey (10%), Organic Pork (5%), Organic Carrots 4%, Organic Dandelion, Organic Nettle, Organic Spirulina, Carageenan, Taurine, Minerals, Vitamin E (alpha tocopherol) 20mg/kg. By using the highest quality raw material this meal provides just the right amount of Vitamin A and D3 your cat needs.</p> <p>Nutritional Breakdown:<br /> Typical values per 100g<br /> Protein 10%<br /> Fat 5.5%<br /> Fibre 0.3%<br /> Ash 2%<br /> Moisture 82%</p> <p>Grain-free.<br /> Certified Organic and Holistic.</p> <p>Michelle Bernard would say that there is no need for all the plant matter - what is your take on that? (I think I would tend to agree with her, though I know cats eat grass when they feel the need to purge).</p> <p>Sorry this is long, and I hope I am not imposing too much on your time. I know this is a particular area of expertise for you. Thanks! </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-437543 Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:42:49 +0000 eleniki 437543@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>Darn, just saw this thread, but it's nearly 1am here and I'm so wrecked, I HAVE to sleep! Thanks for posting this Furryfriends - I have several questions for you, but they're going to have to wait until tomorrow! My girls are switching to raw currently - so far, the tiny one is a savage for it (but that's in keeping with her Eat Anything and As Much Of It As Possible policy) whereas miso, still only a kitten but fully grown (I hope) is a teeny bit more doubtful. I'll come in on this again tomorrow! </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-437407 Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:33:07 +0000 Sheba's Mom in Raleigh, NC 437407@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>I tried the raw diet during that pet food poisoning 2 years ago---my 3 indoor cats wouldn't touch it, so I gave it to the ferals and they loved it. </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-437384 Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:13:28 +0000 furryfriends50 437384@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>feeding brain scares me too, personally i never will. i'll stick with kidneys instead.</p> <p>i was just listing it as one of the secreting organs that you can feed. however i don't because of mad cow disease. </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-437377 Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:00:39 +0000 Vicki 437377@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>Isn't feeding a cat brain dangerous? I mean, with mad cow disease and all, I'm afraid that if I feed Pumpkin a piece of brain that she'll have mad cat disease and have to be euthanized. </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-437372 Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:51:07 +0000 furryfriends50 437372@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>for humans yes we have to be careful while handling it. cats if the meat is handled properly and frozen there is only a slim chance that they will get sick. if you read this: <a href="http://fnes.org/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=20:spooked-by-salmonella-raw-food&amp;catid=1:raw-feeding&amp;Itemid=3" rel="nofollow">http://fnes.org/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=20:spooked-by-salmonella-raw-food&amp;catid=1:raw-feeding&amp;Itemid=3</a> it talks about how to reduce the risk of salmonella. </p> <p>pork is the meat that i am most careful with, i will only feed it after i have frozen it for three weeks because of the possiblity of Aujeszky's Disease in the meat. </p> <p>mine all started out with boneless/skinless chicken thighs which the soon learned were in fact edible; i chose them because they were less tough meat and easy to eat for them. chicken hearts are fairly tiny little things, but mine love that since it only takes a few seconds to have one. beef hearts are much bigger, wieghing around 2-3 pounds. any animal heart is great, those are just the two i have been able to get so far. however the beef heart anyway is tougher meat than chicken heart or chicken thigh. </p> <p>since yours all the sudden love lamb you could try some raw lamb to start with (warning, its expensive)! there could be some nutrient in the lamb that the cats need, somehow cats can sense if they need a certain thing or atleast that is what it seems like. </p> <p>over time though cats need to be switched to eating 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, 5% kidney/brain/other secreting organ so they get all the nutrients they need. mine all demand variety, if i feed chicken three days in a row they won't eat it. same with any other meat lol! differant meats have differant nutrients in them...the darker meat has more taurine, light meat like chicken breast has less. </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-437355 Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:27:35 +0000 feral 437355@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>FF...thru the yrs. I've been taught that raw harbors many bacteria,no matter what the meat. The whole Idea of messing with all that raw kinda scares me. Would It be a healthful start for my kits if I took only raw hearts for the time being &amp; tried those on them? And...are you talking about chicken hearts or beef hearts or both? I've found something unusual about my kits that they never cared for before now. In the canned Friskies,they have a Lamb &amp; Rice flavored food. Suddenly they are all gobbling it up. Do you have any Idea why cats would suddenly develope a taste for lamb when never before liked? We have very few birds around here because of the West Nile Virus,so I'm glad they don't go after the few we do have (quietly laughing at MS comment about small,gray &amp; squeeking).<br /> Thanks for all the knowledge &amp; hands-on experience your sharing. </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-437326 Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:50:33 +0000 furryfriends50 437326@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>i do not feed raw fish - to much mercury and fish shouldn't be fed to male cats anyway.</p> <p>cats need to eat bones so no i will not take out bones. raw bones are just fine for a cat to eat, cooked bones are what aren't safe. i feed lots of kinds of meat: beef, pork, chicken, venison, turkey, lamb, duck, quail, etc. i want to feed some buffalo on some special occasion, it is an expensive meat though. i do buy whole chickens and cut them up. most of the bones in chickens are small enough that cats can eat them, the bigger ones i personally will crush with a hammer to make it easier. the more variety however the better.</p> <p>however raw is not just taking some meat and giving it to a cat. it has to be 80% muscle meat (heart is very good, darker meat is also high in taurine), 10% small bones (such as ribs and necks), 5% liver, and 5% other secreting organ (such as kidney, brain). heart when raw feeding does not count as an organ, it counts as muscle meat and it is a good idea to feed plenty of heart as it is very high in taurine. </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-437263 Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:47:23 +0000 Vicki 437263@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>So what do you do: buy, for example, a fish or a chicken, cut it up, and take out all the bones so the cat can eat it safely? </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-437249 Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:05:47 +0000 furryfriends50 437249@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>they don't live as long as housecats because of the dangers that people have created for them outside. vehicles, poisens, little real outdoor space as in forests (we have torn those down), more open space where they could get caught by an eagle etc. more wild animals in a smaller space because of housing developments.</p> <p>mine are thriving on raw, yes there are some good foods that are made for cats, but since cats are carnivores they can't digest anything properly other than meat. raw can turn around the affects of diabetes, obesity, ibd, and many other typically deadly diseases.</p> <p>my feeding raw is yes a personal dicision, but i have never seen healthier and happier cats than mine now that i am feeding raw. the scientically-formulated diets are causing more health problems than cats have ever had and it is not because cats are living longer. 1 year old cats are put on diet foods because of obesity. then they are put on something because they have another disease, say diabetes. no diet food will really help cats lose fat, no food will help cure diabetes.</p> <p>cats fed raw that live in a house without the dangers that are presented outdoors have been living into their late 20's or later and have perfect bloodwork. they don't have health problems.</p> <p>so i feel that real food is the way to go - meaning real meat. food that cats have eaten over many years. mine now that they are eating raw don't have fleas, they don't have worms, they have perfectly clean teeth with no plaque. more energy, shinier softer coats, more muscles are other things i've noticed. </p> http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/20416#post-437245 Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:55:23 +0000 Vicki 437245@http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/ <p>FF50, wild cats don't live as long as pet cats; it seems to be that a scientifically-formulated diet is helping cats live longer, healthier lives. </p>