Daily Kitten Chat Forum » Purrs

Aggression

(59 posts)
  • Started 3 years ago by Jen
  • Latest reply from The Kittenmaster

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  1. I know I read up on kitty aggression and it can be caused by several things. I think I have narrowed it down to the kitten I just adopted is now either jealous and/or intimidated by my dog, who is an 8 year old Cocker Spaniel. Now I am even more afraid to introduce them... the kitten has been living upstairs in her own room, which I read about in "Kittens for Dummies." I guess I am a dummy! I might have not allowed her enough interaction with others just yet...

    The aggression all really started when she was just playing around this morning. I think it was just playful at first, but it suddenly turned aggressive later when my friend spritzed her lightly in the face with water! In my friend's defense, she didn't know (nor did I really understand) that they see it as aggression, not play. Now I need to tell her not to do that, and explain why. I also need to undo the damage. Please help me!

    How do I get her used to interactions, and at the same time teach her the social "graces" (short of getting another kitten/cat... that is not possible right now) so that she doesn't seem to "attack" people and POSSIBLY my dog when they meet? Thanks so much!

    Posted 3 years ago by Jen #

  2. Jen, I answered this sort of on your other thread, but what I said is that it probably isn't jealousy of the dog if your kitten hasn't even met the dog yet. It is more likely she had pent up energy from being alone and then didn't understand the limits when you and your friend were playing with her. Spritzing is ok and can be effective to stop wrong actions but not in the face which would be kind of mean. Playing with her with your hands lets her think it is ok to attack your hands, so no rough housing just soft petting. She will likely settle down faster once you integrate her into the household so she isn't spending so much time alone.

    Posted 3 years ago by DancingCatHill #

  3. Thanks. I will do that. I think I panicked a bit soon. She will be fine, and settle in nicely. I also think maybe I ignored the "signs" of pre-aggression, including her tail twitching a bit. I could just stop petting her when I see that, and leave her alone for a little while then. Sorry for the panicked post!

    Posted 3 years ago by Jen #

  4. Does she purr much Jen? Listen to the sound of the purr. If she's getting a bit overexcited, the purr will become more throaty, raspy almost. Our Pickle does it if we play with her too much.

    Posted 3 years ago by MadcatwomanintheUK #

  5. She purrs a LOT! Her purrs can be pretty loud generally speaking, but I think I know what you mean about the raspiness. Thanks!

    Posted 3 years ago by Jen #

  6. Jen I never thought I would say this to anyone but I think you need to let her be a kitten. Maybe you are watching and analyzing a little too much. You need to relax because if you don't then Toby won't either. What you are interpreting as aggression could just be playing to her.

    Never let anyone but you discipline your pet and I agree with DCH that squirting her in the face is mean. I think we went over this before but in case you forgot when you are using a spritzer it is important that she does not know where it comes from. If she sees it is you who is squirting her she will just continue to do what she wants but she will know not to do it when you are around. She needs to associate the activity with getting wet, period. Not I get wet when mommy gets out that bottle.

    Posted 3 years ago by petpntr #

  7. I'm sorry but I'm new to this. I do have an anxiety problem and I'm trying to keep it under control. I'm not trying to pick any fights but I DID say sorry for panicking so soon. Thanks.

    Posted 3 years ago by Jen #

  8. Don't worry about anything you ever say here. These are the nicest and kindest people you will ever meet. I'm just glad to hear someone else who has a normal kitten who wants to attack everything. I have had to start wearing socks all the time since my toes have become "toys". Cheetah even attacks my ankles as I walk by the bed (from his hidden secret place)lol. Does your kitty sleep with you? I couldn't tell the new ones that the bed was off limits without really hurting Max's feelings so now all four get the bed. They are good most of the night but I think little Karma gets scared once in a while so she wakes me up to hold her until she goes back to sleep. I don't think anything could affect little Mokie. He really doesn't go after either of us but he does get on his brothers and sister. Good luck with your baby...I think I missed it but is it a boy or girl and what is the name???

    Posted 3 years ago by Alicia #

  9. Hi, and thanks. It's a girl named Toby; she's about 15 weeks old now. I need to set up a gravatar and/or page for her! I also have a Cocker Spaniel named Charlie who sleeps with me currently, so Toby has her own room for now until they start to be gradually introduced (the dog is still getting used to her scent).

    Posted 3 years ago by Jen #

  10. I have to laugh just a little when I think about the intro period for my Big Boy Max. We adopted 7 little orphan kittens at three weeks old. We had to keep them all apart from him until he had his leukemia shots (three weeks). That was a very long three weeks since all he wanted to do was to see them.

    Now that we are down the the three keepers he doesn't want anything to do with them. He is really going to have fun come Monday. All three of the babies are getting fixed and de-clawed. He will have the house to himself for about two days...I know that there are people who don't believe in de-clawing but in our situation it is the best. Might as well get all of it done at once...lol I bet they will all like me when that is done since I will be the one with the pain pills.

    Posted 3 years ago by Alicia #

  11. Alicia I am so sorry to hear you have made that decision. Before you do anything please, please educate yourself about declawing. It is extremely cruel and painful and in most cases totally changes a cats personality. They often end up with aggression and biting problems. This is some information from posts not long ago and there is also one post showing how Hiszlilbrat solved her problem with claws. I find this topic very upsetting so I won't make any further comments but I do hope you will take the time to check out the links.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    From previous posts:

    In many places in the world declawing is forbidden because it is so cruel and in fact in the U.S. many vets refuse to do it. You can read about it yourself so you will know what is involved:

    This first one is one of the best informative cat sites on the internet:

    http://www.catsinternational.org/articles/scratching_and_declawing/declawing.html

    This information is directly from the Humane Society of the United States:

    http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/cat_care/declawing_cats_more_than_just_a_manicure/

    Here is a post Hizlibrat sent last week along with pictures. It will give you an idea of how a responsible, caring kitty owner can deal with the problem of scratching:

    http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/12415

    Posted 3 years ago by petpntr #

  12. When I got my cats, I signed a contract not to declaw them, and they are just fine. They occasionally slip up, and I have learned now to mend things quite well.

    One piece of furniture attracts Rotley and calls to him like Mother Church: an ottoman. I have learned to sew slipcovers for it, and although the only way of keeping Rotley away from it is by using aluminum siding instead of fabric, you just figure there are always drawbacks to having any pet or human in the house.

    It's actually a small price to pay for the delight I have in that wicked little cat!

    Please don't declaw your kitten. Get scratching posts and scratch pads, and the kitten will be just fine. And you will have a very sweet, loving little creature on your hands. Cats that are declawed sometimes go through a change of personality and become very wary or extremely aggressive as an overcompensation.

    Just now, Rotley and Ruggles roared past the computer. Cats are such a delight in one's life -- can't imagine how to live without one!

    Much love,
    Emma

    Posted 3 years ago by Emma #

  13. Alicia, I hope you reconsider. Declawing a cat is extremely painful to the cat, and not effective. I adopted a cat that had been declawed by his former owner, and he was the most destructive cat I ever owned. He would grab things with his paws and then BITE them since he realized his paws could do nothing. He damaged his former owner's furniture and finally a Persian rug, which is why they got rid of him. Cas come with claws for a reason! Imagine not only having all of your fingernails pulled out, but your fingers amputated at the knuckle, since that is what declawing entails. If your cats ever got outside by accident they would be completely defenseless. Have you considered the claw caps?

    Posted 3 years ago by Catwoman #

  14. I used to routinely declaw our cats twenty years ago, I thought it was normal and fine to do to save the furniture. Then the good old vet botched the job on one of our kits. Poor Alec had a malformed toe for the rest of his nineteen years, and I know it hurt him because he held his paw off the floor for years. It was a LOUD wake-up call regarding declawing. He was the last one to go thru that misery. Since then our cats have retained their claws and we have had furniture destroyed by them, but I got over it because stuff is stuff, but a little life should not have to suffer for my stuff. They learn, and in fact as I have paid more attention to them and gently guided them they have all learned not to claw the furniture. Alicia you must do what you feel is right but please, do have a second thought about declawing. Thanks.

    Posted 3 years ago by DancingCatHill #

  15. Allow me to throw in my 2ยข worth about the subject of declawing.

    Alicia and I have been together now for 20 years. In that time, prior to the newest bunch of kittens, we've had 4 cats. All of them have been indoor cats. Both of our feeling is that a cat has a much greater chance of living a long life if he or she isn't exposed to other strays, wild predators, and fast heavy automobiles to make kittens into pancakes. To me, it's more humane to have them inside than out. But that's just me, I don't ridicule someone if they chose to let their cat out. Like anything else, it's a personal decision.

    Our first cat, Frosty, was never declawed. We got him a few months before we got married. Several times during his life he developed infections in his front paws. One was so bad he had to have one of his "thumbs" amputated. Frosty was not that aggressive, but he never learned despite years of trying to lovingly train him, and with scratching posts and aluminum foil all over the house, to NOT rip the furniture to shreds. But that isn't the point, the furniture was crap anyway, and we eventually replaced it after the stuffing was strung all over the house.

    Our second cat, Tigre, initially was not declawed. Tigre however was very aggressive. So much in fact, that she would take after Frosty about once a month and tear into him. You've never seen a cat fight until you watched those two go around the house, with Frosty running for his life. One evening, about a year after we moved to South Dakota, her and Frosty got into it. She laid a claw into Frosty's eye so bad it ripped the cornea. Frosty, being the pacifist that he was, never fought back, but just laid there and bled. After an emergency room visit at 11pm to put Frosty's eye back together, we decided to declaw Tigre instead of putting her down. Which is what some people would have done at that point. After the declawing surgery, Tigre actually became LESS aggressive. She later passed on to the Rainbow bridge, not because of any declawing trauma, but failed kidneys.

    Tigre's replacement was a little girl kitty we named Lil Miss. We made the decision that we could not put Frosty through that ever again, and since all of our cats remain indoors, we went ahead with both the neutering and declawing when she was young. Lil miss never had any problems, never turned aggressive, never bit Frosty, or suffered any personality changes. She too, was a lover. She was daddy's kitty.

    A few years after that, we lost Frosty. He was 15 when he moved to the Bridge. That was painful, as he was "our" first baby. He lived a long and loving life. No, he lived 9 loving lives.

    Then came Max. He was the replacement for Frosty. Again, we made the decision to have the surgery. Max too, is one of the most loving cats I've ever known. Max gives nose kisses to mommy and daddy at night. Or at least he used to, until the new babies arrived, LOL. He never experienced any trauma or personality issues, in fact he became even more "lovie" as he's grown older.

    A couple years ago we lost Lil Miss, for the same reason we lost Tigre. That left us with just Max, until last September when we rescued the 7 little kittens from certain death.

    So what's my point in all this? Declawing is a personal decision, based on individual circumstances. Our cats live indoors, they will never experience having to run for their lives trying to evade a predator, climbing a tree to save him or herself. Or, turning aggressive and ripping someone ELSE's outside kitty to shreds, because they violated their territory. Or, in the case we've experienced in our own lives, taking after one of each other.

    Our veterinarian is somebody we've used and trusted our cats' lives with for years. She's the best. We've discussed the issues, pro and con with her. If either one of us were even remotely concerned about her skills and abilities, we would not go through with it.

    I certainly hope that our decision hasn't affected our relationship with anybody here. Please respect our decision. We don't take this lightly.

    This group has meant a lot to us, more especially to Alicia however.

    Take care, and have a happy 2009.

    Posted 3 years ago by Karma's Daddy #

  16. I agree 100% that kitties should remain indoors, their lifespan is about 4x longer when they are kept indoors. I have never declawed a kitty, that is my personal choice. All of my kitties are strictly indoors only. I must admit, that I don't think it's a good idea, however, I am also realistic and would rather have a kitty placed in a living home and be declawed that have the kitty not get a home at all. This is contrary to many of the shelters that I have volunteered for, so be it.
    The one thing that I have consistently heard about declawing is that if done, it should be done before that age of 1. Apparently since the kitty literally needs to re-learn how to walk, it is far more difficult and painful after the age of 1.
    It is interesting to note that declawing is banned in some countries and some cities in the US. I would imagine that if this came to be, the pros and cons must have been considered.
    Having said all of this, this really does not change how much I enjoy hearing about your furry family Alicia. If you have made this choice, I pray that all goes smoothly and that your kitties recover fully and quickly.

    Posted 3 years ago by Tigerlilly #

  17. Declawing definitely is a personal decision. I did not want to get into a debate about this because there is never a good outcome. I did however want to make you aware of the pros and cons since I did not know about your prior experience or your reasons. I would do the same with anyone who mentioned it.

    I know I said before that I would not comment further but you brought to light something which you may not have considered and I would not feel right if I didn't bring it to your attention.

    You certainly do not need to answer to me or even let me know your decision but I wanted to point out that, if I am reading your post correctly, Max is the last cat you had declawed. I am not sure how old Max is but if it has been a number of years there are alternative choices now which may not have been available to you when you had Max done. Please take a look at the caps that are used for kitty nails. If you check out the post above you will see that Hizlilbrat sent in some really good pictures. Please consider that alternative before you make your final decision.

    O.K. now, I promise I will not make any further comments on the subject.

    Posted 3 years ago by petpntr #

  18. To each his own. This won't change how much I too enjoy hearing about the antics of your kittens Alicia. I personally don't declaw. I learned the hard way as a teen. I had a wonderful siamese girl and my mother had her declawed. We weren't very bright as we let her outside not thinking about how defenseless she was. Hence, I don't declaw because all of mine, with the exception of one, are indoor/outdoor cats. Ellie refuses to go outside so I don't force the issue with her. It sounds as if there isn't any risk with your kits escaping to the great big outdoors. Y'all have done a great job rescuing 7 little babies.

    Posted 3 years ago by tinafishfrombirthplaceofElvis #

  19. ((((PETPNTR))))
    CW, if you're still around, how was your Christmas?

    Posted 3 years ago by Tigerlilly #


  20. Posted 3 years ago by 12PAWZinFL #

  21. That is such a sad story 12P. I have never declawed and will look forward to using your kitty "kisses" to describe some parts of my furnitue from now on. Our Karina has a particular talent with her claw. It started with my sons bedskirt. My son told me that he heard Karina at night making some sounds next to his bed. I looked around and noticed that in that area his bedskirt literally had an embroidery type pattern edged onto the fabric. We have since observed her and call her our embrodery kitty. I have my dining room chairs covered in towels which we remove only when visitors come because Karina really wants to embroider that fabric!

    Posted 3 years ago by Tigerlilly #

  22. My cats are declawed. I adopted 2 that were declawed. We had not planned on declawing Deuter. He is twice the size of Teaser and he went after her like a lion with pray. He took a mighty swipe at her and ripped into her side. She was cut badly. The vet took care of her. When he did it again we knew we had a real problem with him. We began looking into the declawing operation. There are some places that do laser removal. It is still a difficult surgery. Deuter came through fine. I felt horrible for him but if we took him to the shelter the likely hood of placement was very little. We could not let him keep ripping into Teaser. There were several people on this site that said horrible things to me about my decision. I did the very best I knew how. Declawing is illegal in some countries. It is not to be a decision taken lightly.

    Posted 3 years ago by SoxsMom #

  23. TL........I deleted my post because it may have sounded "negative", after reading some of the above posts......it was not meant to be, just a sad experience I had with declawing. I do the towel "trick" too!!! :)

    Posted 3 years ago by 12PAWZinFL #

  24. ***Reminder to self...Do not discuss de-clawing***

    Back to Jen, good luck with you kitty. Please let us know how she is doing.

    Posted 3 years ago by Alicia #

  25. Actually Alicia for future reference you may be interested in knowing that the subject of declawing and indoor vs outdoor cats are forbidden discussions on many cat lists and in most cat groups.

    Posted 3 years ago by petpntr #

  26. for good reason I see. I did not ask for advise I just mentioned it in passing...

    Posted 3 years ago by Alicia #

  27. That is exactly why the subject is often off limits. One doesn't need to ask for advice all you need to do is mention the word and it is such a controvertial subject with such strong feelings that the mere mention of it gets people in an uproar. Same with the subject of indoor vs outdoor cats. The mention of it to advocates of either side will often have people at each others throats.

    In the end nothing is ever accomplished by any debate. People will do what people believe in and are comfortable with. I have never debated the issues but I do strongly suggest, as I do with any subject requiring a decision, that people are aware of all options and aspects before making decisions which can't be reversed. It just makes sense to me and if others become educated to something they were unaware of before then it is better for all concerned.

    Posted 3 years ago by petpntr #

  28. This is my (hopefully) last post on this matter before moving on to more positive subjects, like the continuing adventures of everyone's kitties around the world. *grin*

    I can only go by our own personal experiences with this issue. Three of our four previous cats were declawed, and all three experienced no difficulties or problems. Other people have had different experiences, some very negative. I'm very sorry about that, and my heart aches for you. Ours have been only positive.

    Like Alicia said, hers was a passing comment, she not looking for advise on whether to go through with it or not. And she certainly wasn't expecting to get the reaction she did.

    Sigh.... It's like anything else in this world highly controversial, whether it's politics, religion, abortion, gay marriage, or any other personal "choices" someone makes. There are always people vehemently opposed to what you choose to do or believe. Friendships are broken, families are ripped apart. That's life, and unfortunately, I have to accept that.

    Let's move on.

    Posted 3 years ago by Karma's Daddy #

  29. Hey no unfluffies! We are here to share and help each other! Also it is each cat owner choice to de claw or not! Ever one has there own reasons as to do it or not!

    I personally could never de-claw Maxie but then I have never had a baby so aggressive that the claws were used to hurt me or another pet!

    SO saying Alicia if it is the best choice for you and your fur family then you do what you do and need not explain or give excuses their your babies and your choice!

    Petpntr yes de-clawing is a horrible procedure that removes the first digits and if not done right can cause health issues, or even have kitties not useing litter boxes becuase they associate the pawing of litter with pain. Some that are fearful use their teeth in place of claws! There are so many pros and cons and each owner must weigh them!

    Jen my suggestion!One get a playpen for Tobie and put it in your room!
    http://www.petco.com/product/105251/Midwest-Cat-Playpen-with-Chenile-Bed.aspx

    I have one myself! It hol maxies litter box and food and water! plus gives three levels to roam and play! This wil be a good way for your dog and tobie to be together but safe! Also May I suggest when you are home Tobie should be allowed ot roam the house with you! If your dog is out place in a room with a gate so that the dog can still see everything!
    http://www.petco.com/Shop/SearchResults.aspx?Nav=1&N=0&Ntt=pet+gates

    Also ever ever use a spray bottle if the spray bottle is for electrical cords I suggest gettign sour apple spray instead!

    Also if you have a local petco or petsmart I reccomend getting a sturdy carrier and taking Tobie there for socialization as well as bring friends over to play! Never use your hands or feet as toys use lots of wand like toys instead!

    http://www.petco.com/product/7397/Petmate-Double-Door-Deluxe-Pet-Carriers.aspx
    http://www.petco.com/product/1626/Petmate-Deluxe-Vari-Kennel-Jr.aspx

    I personally got a dog one but that's cause Maxie will get much bigger!

    As for toys wand ones are best or tiny mice and balls for independant play!

    Kitten shave a lot of energy and need to release it so being coope dup in a room by themselves cause boredom which when they play they get over stimulated and excited and don't know when to stop!

    I hope this helps you out some Jen with Tobie and the transition with the puppy! Oh one more thing you could try asnd harness train her!

    Posted 3 years ago by Momma to 2 MaineCoons #

  30. very well said Karma's Daddy!

    So who wants to debate gay marriage or religon!?

    Okay I know gonnaget my butt kicked for that one! But I jsut find it so hard to understand why some people get so all huffy and bothered about curtain issues. You may not agree to it or like it but it is a choice and each make it! Life is way to short to let small matters that really don't affect you get in the way! Now if it was you having to make the decision to de -claw or such then I can understand. But i am also of the mind before I do ANYTHING I educate myself first! So I know the causes and effects my possble actions may cause jsut like I bet this comment will rile someone up!

    Posted 3 years ago by Momma to 2 MaineCoons #


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