Daily Kitten Chat Forum » Cats & Kittens

Multi-cat household issues -- need suggestions please

(25 posts)
  • Started 3 years ago by Marnet
  • Latest reply from MadcatwomanintheUK
  1. First, my apologies for this going to be a long post to fully explain things.

    Hello, I posted an introduction to myself and my 4 fur babies -- Tigger, Alice, Frisky, and Mandi -- some time ago. Brief recap: Tigger is 20+ yr old male w/ chronic renal failure but still hanging in there although getting frail; Alice is 7 yr old healthy spitfire; Frisky is her littermate and dominant alpha male of the four; Mandi is almost 8 yr old special needs rescue kitty with IBS that has finally been under control for some months. I've posted for advice on handling Mandi's IBS in the past and got excellent response from all of you here. Thank you for that.

    Now I've got 2 additional issues I'd appreciate suggestions about, please.

    First, any way I can make keeping miss Mandi's fur butt shaved down to avoid constant UTI's from nasty butt relatively easy and stress free for her nibs??? I live alone since Dad died 16 months ago and have to handle all care of the kitties on my own. I'm out of work and looking for a job so am trying to keep vet bills down when possible, which means doing my own shaving of Mandi's stern sheets rather than paying for grooming. So, how do I single handedly shave a cat's rear end with least hassle and stress for both cat and me?

    Second, and very important, is a question about redirecting and/or retraining the alpaha cat's aggressive ambush bullying. Since Dad died, Frisky (who was very much Dad's cat) has become more and more aggressive with quite mean attacks on the other cats, especially Mandi (who has no claws, not even on her back feet courtesy of whoever had her previously to me). He especially loves to stalk and ambush her when she uses the litter tray which has made her afraid to use the tray. Combine that with her IBS and tendency to frequent UTI's (hence the need to keep her rear shaved and washed regularly) and she has been soiling extensively outside the litter trays.

    Now I've got the soiling issue under control. I've provided a tray in the bathroom (the other four trays are in the basement) along with food and water there. Mandi has spent time confined there becoming re-aquainted with using a litter tray and has been being a good girl in recent days even though let loose most of the time. It is placed where she can see any other cats coming and doesn't require running the gauntlet of the stairway to and fron the basement. And I've not punished her, merely been using lots of positive reinforcement when she's good and providing her with the additional tray location. If need be, I'll even move another tray elsewhere upstairs.

    However, Frisky is still stalking her a lot and has been also getting more and more aggressive with Alice, although she can fight him off well, and with Tigger who is elderly, frail and no longer able to clean the youngster's clock. I know this is normal pecking order behavior in a multi-cat situation, especially with one of the cats being old and another being medical special needs. They will always be the victims.

    However, Frisky's aggression has gotten beyond normal and I've even had to take to scruffing him to remind him not to try being mean with me. Generally speaking he is a loving, affectionate, sweet natured boy; but his alpha routine is getting over the top.

    My current efforts to curb this include the additional tray for Mandi, spending more time engaging Frisky in very active play to expend his high energy levels in exercise, and reinstating some bedtime attention ritual my Dad always gave him and that I had gotten away from doing.

    What more can I do??? I don't expect to intervene in all pecking order behavior or that such behavior shouldn't occur. I merely want to keep it reasonable to that Mandi isn't terrorized and Tigger not injured as he gets more frail. How do I retrain Frisky into more appropriate levels of alpha behavior???

    Thanks for putting up with this long post.

    Posted 3 years ago by Marnet #

  2. I can't help much but I would put a collar w/bell on Frisky so he can't sneak up on poor Mandi or the others. I had to do that to my Lil Girl because when she first came she would stalk the others, the bell made noise so they heard her coming. There are others with much more experience than I who should be able to help but they are normally on during the day or late evenings.

    Posted 3 years ago by AZDEBRA 5/27 & crew #

  3. Thanks Azdebra. It's worth a try. His nibs managed to destroy three collars in the past so I gave up on keeping one on him but I can always give it a new try, especially if I can find a leather collar rather than one of the nylon woven ones I mostly see. He simply claws those to pieces! He is a most talented brat cat.

    But I can see how a bell might help. Duh, I should have thought of that. Thanks again.

    Posted 3 years ago by Marnet #

  4. I wish I could help but I've only ever had two cats at once (mainly because I have had no success in stopping them ganging up on any new introductions, so my foster kittens have remained just that).

    But, as Deb said, more experienced multi-cat TDKers will be on during the day and I'm sure will be able to help. Good luck!

    Posted 3 years ago by jcat #

  5. Thank you Jcat!

    I never intended to have more than two cats but it just sort of worked out to have four. It's really tough to keep up with that many, especially by myself and with limited income but how do you choose which loved kitty to give away? So I choose to spend my money on cat food, litter, and medical care for cats rather than luxuries of most types. They are my adored companions and main recreation! However, I have drawn the line and refuse to have more than the four; I wouldn't be able to take proper care of them and refuse to go down the slippery slope of becoming a hoarder who takes in more cats than I can provide and care for. Many people are able to adopt and/or foster many more than four animals at once. More power to them! But four at once, with two of those having special needs, is my personal resources limit.

    Posted 3 years ago by Marnet #

  6. *bump* for the day shift to read

    Posted 3 years ago by Marnet #

  7. Marnet, our British TDKers will be waking and coming on soon and they may be able to help you with your queries. I haven't had to deal with any of those problems mainly because we have only had 3 cats at any one time and they were mum and 2 kits. Hang in there, you will get your help I have no doubt.

    Posted 3 years ago by Moonshadow_NZ #

  8. Thank you MoonShadow_NZ. Just thought I'd bump the thread since I'm still up. I can't ever get up to see dawn without major effort but staying up all night comes easily to me. Guess I'm just a natural night owl. It's always driven everyone in my family crazy.

    Anyway, I'm off to change the cats' litter trays and put out the trash before the trash collection comes around in a bit. I'll check back here later.

    Posted 3 years ago by Marnet #

  9. Oh, that was exciting putting out the trash; freezing rain has the whole driveway slick as can be. I'm surprised Frisky didn't start literally bouncing off the walls and chasing the other cats when I came back in with a bit of ice on my shoes and coat. For a strictly inside cat, he certainly gets worked up over any outdoor smells.

    Posted 3 years ago by Marnet #

  10. Later folks. Gotta run. I'll check back this afternoon, if I get a chance, or this evening. Thanks again for the warm welcome and thanks in advance for any advice anyone may have to give for my questions about how to single handedly shave a cat's stern sheets without traumatic struggle and also about redirecting/retraining the alpha male's overly aggressive behavior to the female cats and elder statesman of the group.

    Posted 3 years ago by Marnet #

  11. I have 5 cats and the pecking order has been shifting a lot lately. I have a tendancy to take on the pack/colony leader roll. I am the alpha cat in my house. When I catch Randle or JuneBug picking on my Charley cat, I use a very stern voice and redirect their attention. If I can get Randle out of that head down, ears back, stance and redirect him it will usually calm down. I have had to pick them up by the scruff of the neck like a mama cat will do. It is getting better, Randle is tolerating Charley and JuneBug is beginning to ignore him. A spray bottle can help, a can with rocks in it will help, anything to divert the negative attitudes can have a positive result. Just don't spray the cats in the face, that would be mean. Good luck.

    Posted 3 years ago by tinafishfrombirthplaceofElvis #

  12. Others on the site have recommended a product called Feliway to calm aggressive or anxious cats. Here is a website that sells it in spray and room diffuser form: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=1061

    Posted 3 years ago by Kitten Whisperer #

  13. Welcome Marnet!! You've come to the best forum on earth. It sounds like you've got yourself a handfull. I have myself quite a bunch with 8 indoor cats,all rescues. I've had some of the same issues. Some have settled in with time,but, I do still have one little female tabby Winnie,who refuses to stop with her stalking. She showed up on my porch already declawed from the last idiot owners who let her escape. I have to use the squirt bottle on her when I let her roam the house.
    I'm sure that the mistake made from her previous owners of getting her declawed has caused her aggressive behaviour. They tend to compensate for not having the claws by stalking & misplaced aggression. When it's just me & her,she's a little sweetheart.
    The suggestion of the bell & the Feliway are right on. Otherwise all I can recommend is that you keep them permanently seperated. I'm so glad I don't have those problems with my 6 outdoor-only rescues. I wish you the best of Luck!

    Posted 3 years ago by feral #

  14. We also have a four cat household (sometimes 5 when Spike comes over for a play date). We have had some issues in the past with sick kitties vs overly energetic younger cats.

    In addition to scruffing Frisky, you can try holding his neck down and hissing at him when you catch him in the act of being mean to the other kits. That's how a mama cat lets her kittens know they are out of line. It only works when the offending cat is actually performing the unwanted act.

    Another thing that made a difference was giving the bully cat lavish praise, pets and treats when I found him being nice to the other cats. Eventually he learned it was more rewarding to groom the older cat than to attack her.

    It's normal for cats to develop a 'pecking' order but they don't need to be mean about it. And they need to realize that you are the alpha cat. It sounds like you are doing a good job in that respect - maybe Frisky needs a little more reminding that you are the boss.

    Giving Mandi and Tigger a safe place to be, with food, water and litter trays, is a good idea. I'm sure they look upon it as a retreat rather than a punishment. You can also try putting Frisky in a smaller room (like a bathroom) when you catch him being bad. Again, it has to be the immediate result of his badness or he won't make the connection that aggressive behaviour results in a time-out. It helps that you are home most of the time, even though I'm sure you would prefer to not be unemployed.

    Do you have a neighbour or friend who can help you with Mandi's grooming? Do you actually shave her or just clip the fur really short? The kitty wipes you can get in pet stores (and probably online) are really good for cleaning kitty bums. I also use regular baby wipes but only the kind with no alcohol and no scent.

    Feliway has also solved some issues in our house. We had an easily scared baby once who jumped and hid at the slightest sound. Using Feliway helped her become more comfortable. If it works for scaredy-cats it should work for bully-babies as well.

    Posted 3 years ago by CheetahBoysmommy #

  15. Thank you everyone for all the suggestions.

    I do have a Feliway plug-in placed in one room but I'll try putting a couple more strategically placed around the house.

    I like the idea of the noise distraction. I've never tried that, so will give it a go and see how that works.

    And, frankly, I hadn't thought of giving Frisky extra attention and praise for not chasing the others to kingdom come. I'll work on that too and see if it gradually helps.

    And, when he is too out of control, I'll also try confining him. Especially now that Mandi is using litter trays properly again I don't need to close her in the bathroom all the time, so it can become a "time out" place for Frisky. Seems obvious but I simply hadn't thought of doing it. Thank you!

    And I'll try the suggestion of spending more time giving him the type of attention, both positive reinforcement and disciplinary, that reminds him that I am the "mama kitty" and therefore the dominant alpha even to him.

    Perhaps it gets back to him feeling neglected without Dad's constant attention since Dad died and he may be acting like a little kid who is determined to get attention even if it is negative.

    I didn't know about kitty wipes. Wow! I'd been using a warmly damp wash cloth to gently clean Mandi's rear. And as to shaving, at the vet's direction, I've got the fur shaved down quite short back there but not all the way to the skin. I'm not sure if any of the neighbors would help in such an endeavor. I'll have to ponder that question a mite.

    Again everyone, thank you so very much for the feedback and advice. I'll give it all a try and see what develops.

    Like I tell people, who needs tickets to a three ring circus for entertainment when I live in a four cat household!!!

    Posted 3 years ago by Marnet #

  16. Four cat household? We have something in common Marnet! Don't think I can add to the excellent advice you've been given, but I can offer a further endorsement of Feliway, it was a HUGE help when we introdeced my Mum's elderly cat into our crew.

    Posted 3 years ago by MadcatwomanintheUK #

  17. Thanks Madcatwomanintheuk. I'll try not only keeping some in the room where the victim Mandi most likes to hang out, I'll try adding some to the room Frisky holds as his primary territory. Maybe that will calm him down some.

    Posted 3 years ago by Marnet #

  18. Update: Mandi is being a wonderful girl and using the upstairs litter tray like a good little trooper. It means sweeping the bathroom several times a day and changing the litter tray every second or third day, but if that's what it takes to keep my precious girl and have her healthy and happy, so be it. Whenever I see that Frisky has a boatload of energy and is looking for trouble, I try to distract him and play actively with him. As a result he's going after Mandi less and being less aggressive in general. And I am following y'all's suggestion to give him lots of positive attention and reinforcement for when he is being a good and pleasant kitty. I still worry, though, about what will happen once I find a job again and am gone all day. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

    Posted 3 years ago by Marnet #

  19. That is great news, Marnet!! Hurray for Mandi and Frisky! I hope their new, more positive habits become ingrained by the time you go back to work so there isn't any more trouble for Mandi.

    Please keep posting!

    Posted 3 years ago by Kitten Whisperer #

  20. Thank you KW. It helps to be able to talk things out here on the board and get suggestions, feedback, and wonderful support. These cats are my substitute children in a way, even though I'm fully aware they are cats, are animals, not children. But I love them so much. And after all the family deaths in the past few years and now being alone I need my babies more than ever. It helps put it all in persepctive when I get on here and chat with this wonderful "cat crowd."

    Posted 3 years ago by Marnet #

  21. Marnet my heart goes out to you. I have a four cat household (all sibblings) and we definitely experience some competitive bullying here as well. I haven't tried the feliway but understand it has worked for many others. Poor Frisky must really be grieving the loss of your father and his friend. I hope you find the answer to your dilema. I know how much stress it can cause for you as well as the other kits. Best of luck to you. =)

    Posted 3 years ago by Karenopa #

  22. Thank you Karenopa. You are very kind. I'm hoping that reinstating the several daily attention rituals Dad always gave Frisky may help tame him some. He has been a very rambunctious bully today due to an incoming weather front that has him feeling, well, a frisky Frisky. I figure a lot of the inter-cat dynamics are a bit like a home full of sibling children who may love each other but spend lots of time tormenting each other and squabbling. You referee as best you can, keep things at as reasonable a level as possible, and allow a certain amount of letting them settle things between themselves. I'm just looking for healthy balance.

    Posted 3 years ago by Marnet #

  23. Hi Marnet, glad things seem to be improving. This is a great community, for advice, support, and general cat induced insanity! Hope to see you on one of the daily chat threads sometime, keep us posted on how things are going for you.

    PS When you get a job - and I hope that's soon - you may just have to consider segregating the cats while you're out.

    Posted 3 years ago by MadcatwomanintheUK #

  24. Hi Madcatwomanintheuk. Yes, I'm think of moving one of the downstairs litter trays up to the bathroom off the master bedroom so I can close Mandi in the bedroom with access to a tray, food and water away from Frisky. Problem is, that bathroom is so tiny I won't be able to close the bathroom door for any reason with a tray in there, even a small tray, and won't have much room to get at the shower, stool or sink. It's not much better in the hallway bath where I've a tray now. I'm thinking about shifting some things about in the room I use for an office and putting the tray in there. Problem is, the office is Frisky's main territory where he hangs out, sleeps, and generally plays king of the mountain. That's because the office was Dad's most frequented place and therefore it's Frisky's place, so I don't think the tray would work in there. My other option is to put a tray in the spare bedroom or out in the master bedroom somewhere but that gets a mite fragrant if one of the children makes a substantial deposit in the night. I'd hate to lock Mandi in the basement as it is unfinished and tends to be miserably cold to spend much time in during the winter. I'm working on it. I'll figure something out.

    Posted 3 years ago by Marnet #

  25. {{{hugs}}} - it ain't easy, is it? You may have to try a few combination til you hit on one that works for everybody, but you'll get there!

    Posted 3 years ago by MadcatwomanintheUK #


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