I saw a post the other day that said both Science Diet and Iams are bad choices. Why is that and what are the better foods that aren't super expensive?
Daily Kitten Chat Forum » Cats & Kittens
Food Choices
(36 posts)-
-
i'll try and explain that sometime in the next four hours. i have to get ready for school right now, and i think i was the one that posted that. but yes it is true.
Posted 2 years ago by furryfriends50 #
-
-
well, it is just my opinion that they are bad based on what i have read.
breakdown of ingrediants in science diet: http://www.dailykitten.com/chat/topic/13974 it is something i would never feed my cats. barely any meat, and the meat in it is poor quality.
Original: Chicken, chicken by-product meal, corn grits, ground whole grain sorghum, corn meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of vitamin E, and citric acid), fish meal (source of fish oil), dried beet pulp (sugar removed), dried egg product, natural chicken flavor, potassium chloride, brewers dried yeast, dl-methionine, choline chloride, vitamins [vitamin E supplement, niacin, ascorbic acid, vitamin A acetate, calcium pantothenate, biotin, thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), inositol, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid], salt, calcium carbonate, minerals [zinc oxide, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, cobalt carbonate], rosemary extract.
The first ingredient is chicken but only before they have processed the food. For the most part, chicken is lots of water so after processing and turning it into a dry kibble with 8% or so moisture, it ends up being more like the 5th or 6th ingredient. Chicken by-product meal then is really the first ingredient, meal is ground up so it contains less water to start with. This is what chicken by-product meal really is (copy and pasted from science diet one):
Chicken by-product meal: Okay, so we are NOT starting off on the best food with this ingrediant. It is much better for a food to start off the ingrediant list with something like whole animal protien. By-products are cheaper, meaning the less money that the manufacturers have to spend. By products are the leftovers from the human-food industry, all the things that are unwanted by people or are condemned or unfit for human consumption. Chicken by-products can include feet, underdeveloped eggs, organs, necks and you can probably add a few feathers to the list too. By-products aren't that bad by themselves, the problem comes because we do not know the quality of the batch or the real composition. Have you ever heard of the 4-D's? Dead, diseased, dying, or disabled animals. Sounds tasty doesn't it? If the label had actually said "meat" we would know that it meant the protien-rich meat of an animal, however by-products vary so largely from one batch to the next that we have no clue what happens to actually be in this ingrediant. Okay, so by-products are not neccesarily horrible for cats, because a cat will naturally eat parts that we as humans don't care for. However, listing chicken by-products as the first ingrediant does not assure us that there is a high quality protien in this food. The word meal is defined as being either ground or pulverized.
If your are still not disturbed by this, think anout the fact that it is the only source of animal protien in the product. A high abundance of high-quality animal protien happens to be the most or really close to most important component in a cats diet. The fact that this food is a high-priced food that is sold through veternarians shoudl assure us of a high-quality protien. The lesson here is to not assume!Corn grits – obviously it is corn. Cats can not properly digest corn and most corn now is genetically modified making it unhealthier. In cat food, corn is just a filler, it has no use at all to a cat who as carnivores can not get much nutrients out of it.
Ground whole grain something or other: Even in ancient times cats were valued because the killed the mice that got into grain sheds. This system worked so well because the cats did NOT eat the grain/corn. They ate the mice, which is meat. So for the most part this food is corn/grain which is junk for cats and just fillers.
Corn meal: why do they need MORE corn. Really, this could just as well be called chicken feed at this rate. Not easily digested and hurts rather than helps.most of the time, vitamins and minerals are killed with the processing.
i personally will not feed my cats dry food with by-products, corn, wheat, or soy.
wet food however - low quality wet is better than best quality dry because of the moisture in it.
the better alternatives for cat food:
instinct rabbit formula: 90% of protein comes from meat, its about $30 for 12 pounds
natural balance: $30 for 16 pounds
wellness: $35 for 12 pounds
authority (can only get from petsmart and ingrediants are close to iams but it is cheaper): $25 for 20 pounds
blue buffalo wilderness: $30 for 12 pounds
chicken soup: $25 for 18 pounds
there are more but i have to go b/c bell is going to ring any second.
Posted 2 years ago by furryfriends50 #
-
furryfriends50 has covered all the important aspect and I am so glad to know that there are folks here that are into Feline Nutrition as much as myself. Yay! Just to chime in my 2 cents.
IAMS is NOT a good cat food product. Many people feels that since IAMS and it's evil twin Science Diet are recommended highly by veterinarians, it has to be good. Unfortunately, veterinarians are trained to be professionals in the medical field of treating animals, are rarely in feline nutrition. Many veterinarians will agree that they spend more in practicing the medical and pharmaceuticals aspects of their chosen field than truly understanding the forever evolving science of feline nutrition.
Why do veterinarians push IAMS and Science Diet food to their patients? The answer can be found here:-
http://rawfed.com/myths/vets.html
Iams gets much of its meat supply from the rendering industry—which is not regulated for quality assurance by the USDA as Iams claims and has a long history of supplying big pet-food companies with so-called “4-D meats” (which come from dead, dying, disabled, or diseased animals).
Now, that is not something that I would want to feed my cat. To find out more about IAMS Nutrition Violations, visit the website below:-
http://www.iamscruelty.com/iams-feat-exposed.asp
I don't feed dry food but if you do, the list provided by furryfriends50 is indeed a very excellent choice. If you feed wet, two brands that are really good but easy on the pocket are Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul and Pet Promise. Decent ingredients.
Posted 2 years ago by tuttibella #
-
....I'm confused which of the above in her list are dry food... all of them starting with instince rabbit formula? and is that for cats? ......
.... I've been desperate to get Abby to eat wet food, but she absolutely WILL NOT even try it!..... no pouches, no canned, I've tried every flavor on the market, no real tuna, salmon, or anything!.... this morning I bought her some baby food chicken flavor, but so far she hasn't touched it!.....
-
-
All of the above listed are dry cat food.
http://www.naturesvariety.com/instinct_cat_kibble_rabbit
This particular brand has both dry and wet rabbit meat for cats. And yes, cats do eat them. They hunt rabbits in the wild! :)
It's is not easy to transition a kibble addict to wet food. Gradual transition is the key. If you are interested to find out more on how, please email me.
I can try to give you some tips.
Posted 2 years ago by tuttibella #
-
This is very informative, thank you! I'm currently feeding my kitten Authority wet food, because that is what she is used to. And in deed it is inexpensive. But I am going to try Wellness and Natural balance--I can get them at Petco near me. I can't find Chicken soup in any shop near me. I'll have to look for Pet Promise.
As for feeding raw meat, so far I have heard nothing negative about it, except for the time and preparation necessary... I may consider that in the future, but I'd alternate with cat food.
-
-
TB, I tried to email you (I copied and pasted what you posted) but it came back as not being a valid address..... is there a mis-type in there?
that is where I sent it, is that correct?
-
Could it be lucybellenyc@gmail.com, AV?
Posted 2 years ago by Kitten Whisperer #
-
-
all of the foods i listed are dry (but most also come in wet). the regular Instinct doesn't have much meat in it so i don't use that. Instinct Rabbit Formula has four meats as the first four ingrediants, and 90% of the protein is from the meat. Also, all my cats will eat it happily. It has a raw bio-coating which i don't know how much that actually helps.
other dry brands:
Kirkland Cat Food (Costco) - $16 for 25 pounds
Katz-n-flocken - $30 for 15(?) poundsWhen it comes to actually feeding the more expensive foods like the ones i listed it in the long run is cheaper. Cats eat less of it, and it keeps them healthier meaning less trips to the vet. Cats only get full from meat protein and fat which are the two things that triggers a cats brain to tell it that it is full. most foods don't have to much meat protien meaning a cat will eat and eat because it doesn't know it is full. So, if you think about it, it is cheaper and healthier.
Posted 2 years ago by furryfriends50 #
-
do you have any information on [Kit and Kabodal ] and [9 Lives ]as I may need to change to it if I have problems finding the first one
they seem to eat it alright of course I mix some can with itPosted 2 years ago by Renee in Arkansas #
-
Kit N Kaboodle Ingredients:
Ground yellow corn, corn gluten meal, soybean meal, chicken by-product meal, beef tallow preserved with BHA, fish meal, turkey by-product meal, phosphoric acid, calcium carbonate, salt, brewers dried yeast, animal digest, potassium chloride, tetra sodium pyrophosphate, choline chloride, taurine, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, added color (Red 40, Blue 2, Yellow 5, Yellow 6), glyceryl monostearate, L-Alanine, niacin, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), manganese sulfate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, biotin, copper sulfate, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, citric acid, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.okay, this is horrible! the first meat is the 4th ingrediant and it is by-products so those don't count. there is NO taurine listed in the guareeted anylisis at all which is a must for cats, without it they can go blind and have heart failure. really, the food is just corn and soy which are both undigestable so unusable for cats.
9lives: Whole ground corn, poultry by-product meal, soybean meal, meat & bone meal, corn gluten meal, animal fat (preserved with BHA and mixed tocopherols), animal digest, whole wheat, wheat gluten, salt, water sufficient for processing, caramel color, glycerine, choline chloride, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), ground wheat flour, titanium dioxide, natural and artificial flavor (source of roast flavor), taurine, potassium chloride, minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), yellow 5, dried cooked turkey, dl-methionine, yellow 6, BHA (preservative), sodium bisulfate, potassium sorbate (preservative), red 40, sorbic acid, sodium carbonate, rosemary extract.
better for sure but still horrible in my opinion. the bulk of the food is corn. the meat is by-products which can be about anything. soy causes a very stinky litterbox.
honestly the ingrediants of both made me want to barf lol!
if there is a petsmart near you and you want cheap food go for authority, it has decent ingrediants and is much much better than either of the two foods you mentioned. not that authority is the best food out there, there are some that are better than it but it is pretty good.
mixing canned into dry = lots of bacteria if left out for 30+ minutes.
both the foods you listed i know you can get from walmart so if you want food from there Maxximum isn't to bad either. also whiskas came out with the purrfectly chicken dry food which isn't bad but isn't good either. first two ingrediants i think are meat anyway. anyway, those are some cheaper alternatives that i know of that are okay for cats.
Posted 2 years ago by furryfriends50 #
-
I used to try others but they would stop eating it after about 1 bag .Kit and Kabodal seems to be something they like and Cindy never found it on the tainted list.I will try getting the others to see how they like it. Of course the only inside cat is a diva and she doesn't eat can and even turns her nose up at deli sliced turkey, ham or roast beef .Whats a guy surppost to do ?
Posted 2 years ago by Renee in Arkansas #
-
cheap foods like those are coated with animal digest which makes it taste really good to a cat. if there was none on it, then trust me a cat would never consider eating it. kinda like sugar coated cereal or chocolate covered ____<--insert food here. so yes it may taste good but that does not mean it is good for a cat.
also, would you eat the same exact thing every single day?? i wouldn't lol! and cats don't like to either. so that is most likely why they won't eat the same bag of dry food again.
i mix my farm cats food so there are three differant brands that they get everyday. every month two of the mixed in brands switch so they aren't getting the same thing over and over again.
read these:
pet food marketing hype: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=petfoodmarketinghype
pet food regulation: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=petfoodregulation
what REALLY goes into cat food and how to choose a good food: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=004
switching foods: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=switchingfoods
what cats should eat: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whatcatsshouldeatexcerpt
why cats NEED canned food: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whycatsneedcannedfood
the truth about dry food: http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html
Posted 2 years ago by furryfriends50 #
-
-
well, since dry food isn't good for cats then there is really not such a thing as best dry foods. the best food for a cat has 70%+ moisture. dry only has 8% or less.
good brands of dry food (as far as dry goes) are:
1) EVO
2) Innova
3) Instinct
4) Natural Balance
5) Wellness
6) Blue Buffalo Wilderness
7) Kirkland
8) Felidae
9) Chicken Soup (has been known to cause health problems though)
10) Authority - not bad for the price though i won't feed iti myself wouldn't be feeding any dry if i was able to get to the farm twice a day instead of only once a day. so since i have to feed dry i do but really wish i didn't have to.
for me to actually think a dry food is good it has too:
a) have no corn in it
b) have no wheat
c) have no soy
d) have no by-products
e) meat is the first two ingrediants (chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, rabbit meal...)
f) preferably have no veggies/fruits unless low in the ingrediant list
g) the company should have only a few differant formulas - the best foods are all life-stage
h) it HAS to have taurine the cheaper foods sometimes don't
i) the best dry food is going to be grain freealso see this about dry food: http://www.catinfo.org/#My_Cat_is_Doing_Just_Fine_on_Dry_Food_
Posted 2 years ago by furryfriends50 #
-
FF50, you are a wealth of information! :)
I have only one thing to add. I was feeding my kits Maxximum Nutrition which is a Wal-Mart brand. Wal-Mart doesn't seem to carry it anymore. It still shows up on Wal-Mart's webpage but the link to it doesn't work. I now feed my girls Wellness Indoor Cat food.
Posted 2 years ago by Kitten Whisperer #
-
-
I am thrilled to see that furryfriends50 is sharing her wealth of info with everyone here. It is really about time that we become wiser in feeding our feline babies. I would like to share something with everyone here so that more will become enlightened when it come to food choices we make for our cats.
Many will not know this but once you have read this, you might think twice about the food your cats are eating now.
http://www.preciouspets.org/newsletters/articles/grains-in-pet-food.htm
Most commercial diets are not well-suited to the dog's and cat's physical make up and metabolism. In other words, they are not 'biologically appropriate.' They are primarily made up of grain products.
Contemporary canine nutritionists explain that dogs do not process complex carbohydrates (grains) well. Studies demonstrate that unlike humans, dogs do not 'carbo-load,' that is, store up energy from meals high in complex carbohydrates. While human athletes successfully practice this technique, it results in an accumulation of lactic acid in dogs (which causes the muscular pain experienced after unaccustomed exercise).
Grains are also full of carbohydrates which can be easily converted to sugars. Cancer cells feed on sugars, and it is believed that by decreasing the amount of carbohydrate in the diet, we may greatly reduce the risk of cancer (which is a growing problem among modern dogs and cats).
The makers of prescription dog foods advertise the use of high-quality, whole grains in their food. They say these provide and "excellent source of protein" for dogs. Large amounts of grain may be an appropriate source of protein for some species...but NOT so for animals primarily designed to eat meat!
Which brings me to what 'grains' in commercial pet food really are. When whole grain is used in dog food (and even cat food), it has often been deemed unfit for human consumption due to mold, contaminants, or poor handling practices. Some brands reportedly contain damaged, spilled, and spoiled grain known as "the tail of the mill." This can include the hulls, chaff, straw, dust, dirt, and sand swept from the mill floor at the end of each week, which are totally unnatural nutritional ingredients! Most of these ingredients, such as peanut hulls, are used strictly for "filler" and have no nutritional value at all! They are also economical for the pet food companies!
Imagine AAFCO approving 'the tail of the mill' as acceptable grains in your pet's diet! Unbelievable!!!
GRAINS - Could this be why my pet scratches constantly?
Yes, grains (mainly wheat and 'the tail of the mill' ingredients) are one of the most common causes of allergies in pets. Grains can also be responsible for "gunky" ears, yeast infections in the ears or on the skin, ear infections, head shaking, allergies, skin irritation, itchy feet and genitals. Other symptoms of grains and yeast infections may be as broad ranging as: malabsorption of food nutrients, joint problems, arthritis, diabetes, colitis and kidney or bladder infections.
Too much money has already been spent by American pet owners to their veterinarians, to find out the cause of the above-mentioned symptoms. It's a shame that most veterinarians do not take their patient's diet into consideration FIRST, when, in fact, most of these symptoms are directly related to what the pet is eating. Instead, great amounts of needless money are spent on pills, creams, antibiotics, injections, blood work and frequent vet visits.
Be a step or two ahead of your veterinarian...look at the ingredients in the food you're presently feeding, study them and see just what particular ingredient could be causing your pet's allergic reaction(s). If you're still feeding one of those popular commercial pet foods, I can almost guarantee that more than one ingredient is the culprit!
Posted 2 years ago by tuttibella #
-
thank you.
also, most brands will increase the amount of grains in "diet" food and take away some of the meat. so diet food just increases the carbs that come from grains making for a fat (and unhappy) cat.
i know instinct rabbit formula is grain free.
lots of cat foods if you look at the picture on the bag has just a tiny bit of meat then lots of grains/veggies/fruits which makes it appealing to people because that is good for us. generally the big brands tend to do that.
Posted 2 years ago by furryfriends50 #
-
FF50 - thank you so much for all this information! I will be switching foods.... going to check out a natural foods pet store either on my lunch hour or right after work. I plan to purchase the best I can within my budget. Although my girls appear healthy, I can't see what's happening inside them.
-
The Costco brand you mentioned above was involved with last year's recall--it had ingredients from China just like the Walmart brand. I believe Pet Promise was one also.
Posted 2 years ago by Sheba's Mom in Phoenix, AZ 10/8 #
-
"The Costco brand you mentioned above was involved with last year's recall--it had ingredients from China just like the Walmart brand. I believe Pet Promise was one also."
pet promise if you look at the ingrediants is not at all a good food.
i didn't know that kirkland was recalled last year - was it the wet food or dry?
Posted 2 years ago by furryfriends50 #
-
*sighs*... I've got so much to learn! Abby is so picky, and has absolutely refused all attempts at wet food.... I thought I'd found a fairly healthful dry food - it had 40% protein, and the first ingredient was real turkey (not meal or parts, but the 2nd ingredient is rice .... so I'm confused now..... (really I'm just ignorant!)..... in humans, rice is THE recommended starch for good digestion ( I know because with all my gasterological issues - that's the only one they recommend )... but this dry food does have some corn, wheat and soy down further in their list of ingredients!.... The guy at Petsmart highly recommended it, but now I'm questioning my choice.... I couldn't find most of the items on the lists above, but I did see the blue buffalo products, and the authority ones.... however, their % protein was much less, and they too included some of the corn, wheat, soy things..... *oh dear*... trying hard to do the best for my baby!.... the food I bought was Purina Proplan - Turkey/Indoor formula ..... did I make a mistake?
-
is it this one? http://www.proplan.com/dry-cat-food/indoor-care-turkey-rice-formula/
ingrediants: Turkey, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken meal, dried egg product, soy protein isolate, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), wheat flour, fish meal, powdered cellulose, animal liver flavor, soybean hulls, dried chicory root, potassium chloride, phosphoric acid, salt, choline chloride, Vitamin E supplement, calcium carbonate, taurine, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.
turkey- yes it IS the first ingrediant but that is before all the cooking and processing. after all the cooking and stuff it moves to the 5th or 6th ingrediant. turkey is mainly water so that is why it moves back so far.
brewers rice - Brewers rice is basically just a waste product of the alchohol industry. It is the dried extracted residue from beer; it may also contain certain hops. The ASPCA considers hops to be poiseness to cats; its consumption may lead to an increase in heartrate, tempeture, siezures, and if in a large enough quantity - death.
corn gluten meal - Corn Gluten meal is the dried residue from after they take out the startch and the germ (the most nutricious part of the plant in this case). Corn Gluten meal is the by-product from the manufactering of corn startch, corn syrup, or by the enzymic treatment of the endosperm (food for the growing plant).
Corn Gluten meal is high in nitrogen and makes a great weed killer. It helps by boosting the protien count on the bag of food. There is no facts that prove that cats can digest vegetable protien properly. It is also corn meaning that it is most likely genetically modified and contains alfatoxins. Alfatoxins are an extremelly dangorous toxin that is produced through mold or fungus; their ingestion is linked to liver damage, immune deficiency's, and other serious health problems. Heat processing or freezing won't control the alfatoxins, and unfortunatly, pet food manufacterers don't have to test for it.
This was also on eof the ingrediants in pet food that sparked the current pet food recall, and recent reports show that this contaminated corn gluten meal has killed many furry family members.chicken meal - that is good! but should be the first ingrediant instead...
dried egg product - i don't know how much of the nutrients survive cooking. i feed some raw eggs to mine though in thier raw mix everynight.
soy protein isolate - undigestable for cats, just a filler. can cause cats to have gas and is linked to some health problems
animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E)-This generic term (animal fat) can indicate poor quality- it is probably more accurate to call this ingrediant animal grease due to the high heat and rendering that take place in the making of this product. Artificial preservatives can also harm your cat.
wheat flour - whats the point? cats can't properly digest it, its what ends up in the litterbox. wheat/corn/soy aren't used by the higher quality brands.
fish meal - what fish? there's lots of differant fish... and fish is not generally that good for cats...if tuna it is even worse.
powdered cellulose - more commonly known as sawdust!
animal liver flavor - its flavor. makes a cat think that the food is edible when it is not anything they would naturally be eating.
soybean hulls - aka the junk left from soybeans that is no use to anyone
dried chicory root - idk but its plant and that means it isn't that good for cats.
+Most of the protein is coming from plants. yes it is protein, but no cats can't use plant protein. they use meat protein.
well, thats my breakdown of the main ingrediants, hope it helps. i think i will start working on rating all the brands of cat food i can think of tomorrow before school. so then there is a list of foods ranging from worst to best based on ingrediants. besides it gives me something to do ;D
Posted 2 years ago by furryfriends50 #
-
Reply »
You must log in to post.