Kittenmaster : a request for a re-think « Daily Kitten Chat Forum

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Kittenmaster : a request for a re-think

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Started 2 years ago by MadcatwomanintheUK
Latest reply from MadcatwomanintheUK

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KM, far be it for me to question your authority on this site, it is after all YOUR site, and I think you know just how much we ALL appreciate it.

But - I am more than a little saddened by your reaction to one recent thread about Chip In pages. In all honestly it seems a little knee jerk.

Whatever anyone's thoughts on TDKer Elm/Eric - and I personally have found him genuine - we as a community have used Chip In to help a number of our "family", and I think it would be very, very sad if we weren't able to do this in the future. Under your new rule, we wouldn't have been able to help Gini & Taco, Owlwatcher, Daisy Mew, Vicki, Kay and Parfait...to name but a few, and I'm not very happy about that.

So what if someone we don't know very well includes a chip in link? We can ignore it!!! We don't HAVE to donate, there is no cyber gun to the head!! In this particular instance, the poster has explained that it's more aimed at other friends/family, and the link was posted largely in response to a question.

Please KM, I'm asking to you to re-consider your decison. TDK Chat has grown into such a warm, wonderful, generous community. It would be a shame to have this generousity of spirit tempered by what I honestly think was a massive overreaction to a post.

Posted 2 years ago by MadcatwomanintheUK #
MCW, I must admit that I agree with KM on this one...

BTW, about the TDK'ers that you mentioned having been assisted financially...could they have been assisted off-site? I know many of us have "personal" friendships with a few TDK'ers off-site and could discuss personal financial situations with them. I completely agree that no one is forced to donate any money to anyone's chip in page, but some days it appears that TDK could become a telethon...in short order.

Posted 2 years ago by Dee #
Having a lot of help from TDK, I can admit that Melvin wouldn't be the healthy little tyke he is today without all of the great generous people here.

I'm on the fence about this one, as I, myself, have donated to a few ChipIns on here. Melvin didn't have a ChipIn of his own, but many of TDK's members emailed me and donated very graciously on their own account. And I thank them so much.

But I do have to say, as genuine as Elm was, you have to look at the entire situation at hand. With 11 cats in a small area like that along with a financial situation going on, you REALLY have to think about the fact that it is quite possible that money isn't going to help. From a rescuer's point of view, and also having been in a similar situation, maybe re-homing some of the cats would be a better option in the matter.

But I do feel that it should up to those in TDK to decide whether or not they want to donate, though. And making threads like the "something is fishy" thread helps weed out those that are and are not genuine. Heck, Elm is now going to speak to his veterinarian and have the money go directly to the vet. I honestly feel that you can't get more genuine than that.

But, as mentioned, it's KM's decision in the end.

Posted 2 years ago by MouchoisMelvin #
KittenMaster, as noted by others, this is YOUR site, so your rules. We appreciate and value your providing this venue as a cyber meeting place for kitty people from around the world.

As others have raised a question I also wonder about, I respectfully would like to add this thought. There is at least some difference in both substance and intent between soliciting donations on behalf of oneself, no matter how legitimate the need may or may not be, and the generous and spontaneous community spirit to provide help to someone else.

Again, your site, your rules. Just tossing out the observation for thought.

Posted 2 years ago by Marnet #
I am the one who started "something sounds fishy" thread. and i would hate to see the financial help we have given each other end. we have helped each other in so many ways due to this site being here. but again, it is your site, your rules. i gave out my opinion because i didn't want any of my "family" hurt...

Posted 2 years ago by CSBM #
Marnet...I don't quite understand the sentence, "There is at least some difference ....and the generous and spontaneous community spirit to provide help to someone else." Could you clarify that for me? Thanks!

Posted 2 years ago by Dee #
I don't think that any of it was unneccesary. If you're going to ask for money, then you should expect people to ask for details.

Posted 2 years ago by MouchoisMelvin #
I'd like to say one thing: I'll happily admit that decision to change the posting guidelines may have been a knee-jerk reaction to the recent developments, but I've never been comfortable with the idea of TDK being a place where people can appeal for money, however worthy the cause - I think it's open to abuse, and I would hate to see the good-natured, generous folk of TDK taken advantage of. I'm not suggesting that people are gullible, but I do feel that someone should have earnt the trust of fellow TDKers before requesting financial help.

I appreciate that the fund has done a lot of good work, but I do not want TDK to become a place where people can roll up and ask for money. If anyone can suggest a way around this, I'm all ears.

Posted 2 years ago by The Kittenmaster #
Mouchois Melvin you are so right, if you are going to ask, expect to also answer.

KM- This is your site, your rules...I completely understand your reasons! There are others ways in which people in need can ask for help, we should respect KM guidelines. I am very thankful to KM for creating this community for us and he is doing his very best to keep it the wonderful place that it has been for so long.

Posted 2 years ago by 2bpurring #
Ditto 2PBurring...Kudos to KM from a very "young" yet oldie but goodie member!

Posted 2 years ago by jeankit #
I'm of two minds on it, KM. I can see your points (and maybe raise you one or two), but on the other hand, TDK is not the site where donations are given.

I don't see a problem with someone in need asking for help, especially since the links are to sites away from this page, but it -can- be abused by those who lurk and discover how soft-hearted we are towards our TDK family. I have wondered in the past if this had been done to us.

Maybe if someone has a need, they could post their email addy so we can contact the person privately for more information? KM?

Posted 2 years ago by Siobhan #
This is a place where I am on the fence too. Personally, I have been one of the members who have received help from chip in in the past. My wonderful TDK friends were more than generous and I am still in awe at the help that I have received. I was a full time student working a part time job and trying to juggle almost 4,000 dollars in vet bills for a kitten that was in the hospital for over a week dying of an at the time unknown cause. Without the chipin I don't know where I'd be.

On the other side of things, sometimes a few of the chipins that pop up seem fishy. I agree that people may come on, see we are a generous group, and end up trying to take advantage of us (not saying that anyone has taken advantage of us or that anyone is gullible, just that it is a possibility).

I think and agree with others that the best thing to do if someone needs financial help is to perhaps send an email to their TDK friends telling them of the hardship, or to even post about the hardship on the forum but not post a chipin link asking for money and those who are willing and able to help can contact the person in need privately.

However, at the same time, having a chipin page catches my attention more and it can show the story on the page and the progress on the side we are making towards the person in need's goal and it feels good to work as a team to reach that goal and to know you are a part of it, even if its just a small donation or even if you can't donate at all you can see the progress and just feel good knowing you are part of a group of such caring people.

I don't know.

Posted 2 years ago by gini #
How to create a "TDK SEAL of APPROVAL" for solicitations.
What if the TDK FUND became a panel to evaluate aid requests/sales? Members could submit need requests for themselves and other members. When the panel is satisfied with the genuine worthiness of the situation, an invitation to create a chip-in page with a value not to exceed (the approved value) to be posted by the TDK FUND REPRESENTATIVE. The beneficiary creates their page and reports the link to the TDK-FR who posts the site (for members like Jymberry or MouchoisMelvin the TDK-FR would post links to the sales/raffle pages).
Unauthorized Chip-in Links can then be summarily closed either with a KM notice (my preference because it serves as a no trespass warning) or deletion.

Benefits: The TDK FUND does not have to keep books or maintain accounts or worry about a key member being lost. The site does not become a magnet for mendicants. The community has a clearer path for offering more than moral support and advice.

Disadvantages: Complex. Will need an active board. Will need careful veting of requests. Some bad apples will still get by.

Posted 2 years ago by ailuromaniac #
Ail that is something that might be considered.

Gini, I know you and several others have been helped by TDK member contributions, but if you think about it TDK offered help, you never asked for it. Even the newer members like Parfait mama never asked for anything other than information and suggestions. When she found out about Care Credit she, like you, took on the burden yourselves and would have done so completely if help had not been offered. I'm not saying that if someone asks for help it should be denied but many never even try to handle things themselves first. Sorry if I have offended anyone, just my opinion.

Posted 2 years ago by 2bpurring #
Dee, in answer to your question for clarification of my sentence......2bpurring's post says quite well what I was referencing.

Posted 2 years ago by Marnet #
I agree with 2BP. I know of one person who asked all for help and whom a number of us generously donated to only to have this person disappear as soon as they got at least half of what they were asking for. Then they pop up again on TDK reminding us of their chipin page and that they were still asking for help but then disappeared again. I know a few TDKers felt taken advantage of by this person (myself included) and so we are more cautious of who we donate to. We all work hard for our money and most of us have to watch our budgets. I know now that if someone asks for money on TDK along with posting a link to their chipin page, I am wary of them because it just seems that they didn't even take the time for TDK to get to know them and their situation or even try themselves to find the help. I understand times are tough but there are options out there and one just needs to do a search online via Google to find the resources.

Ailuromaniac made a very good suggestion along with others here and they are all something to consider.

Posted 2 years ago by SylMiaFelixMomma #
I like your suggestion Ail, I think it solves a lot of potential and real problems without detracting from the essence of TDK. Yes, it would be complex and require active involvement, but nothing worthwhile ever came cheap. I'd happily volunteer to sit on such a board if this idea came to fruition.

Whaddaya reckon KM?

Posted 2 years ago by MadcatwomanintheUK #
...just a PS on the bad apples thing...if we have to experience one bad apples to help 10 good ones, that's a pretty good ratio, I for one would be happy with that...

Posted 2 years ago by MadcatwomanintheUK #
...and one quick question for KM : are we still OK to bump up existing chip in threads? - I'm thinking of Parfait's thread, which is active and many people said they were waiting til later in the month or even September to donate...can we still use this thread or would you rather we didn't?

Posted 2 years ago by MadcatwomanintheUK #
I am a relatively new TDK family member and had not even heard of Chip. I'm living on disability income and have much financial need, but would never ask for money from this family. The emotional support I receive from this beautiful group of people has already tilted the scales on my side, and that support is much more valuable to me than money could ever be. I have always found that information can be extremely valuable: if there is a certain need for one of our family, we can brainstorm and come up with ideas on how to address their problems or possibly a TDK person could direct them to resources the person in need can access. Maybe a site could be developed that lists such resources. Everyone here is so generous with their love and guidance; I can see how that generosity could be taken advantage of and I would hate to see that happen to you lovely people.

Posted 2 years ago by Kitty poet #
Kitty Poet your kind words and reasoning is greatly needed here. Thank you!

Posted 2 years ago by 2bpurring #
I understand everyone's point of view, and especially KM. But if I might add just a couple of more thoughts or considerations.

The chip-in page that was put up yesterday did look odd to many people but I don't know that it warranted a thread warning against it. I think that a chip-in page is like anything else, and you must use your common sense as to whether or not you would make a donation. Personally, I don't think it's right to set up chip-in pages on TDK that are not related to problems with our furrbabies. That is just my opinion. But if someone rang your doorbell, someone that you had never seen before, and asked for money to have their kitty spayed, would you hand over money? I seriously doutbt that any of us would. You don't know the person. It's really not that much different here. If you don't know the person, and you aren't comfortable giving, or with their request, don't donate anything. Pretty simple, really.

Secondly, the ease of donating using chip-in to someone that you genuinely do want to help out is a big plus. It's so much easier to just do it that way than to write a check, mail the check, etc. I don't know about you all, but I am both a procrastinator and forgetful. I might mean to write a check and mail it, but the chances are that I won't. Whereas with chip-in, I can do it right away.

Just my thoughts, littermates.

Posted 2 years ago by WillowandWindismom #
Well said WWM.

Posted 2 years ago by MadcatwomanintheUK #
I'm always a little leery of a Chip-in page, unless it's for a long established TDK'er. I am a lot more comfortable sending money directly to a vet - that way I know it's going to be used for a furry baby and not to fund someone's vacation or drug habit.

Posted 2 years ago by CheetahBoysmommy #
That is very wise CBM. and most every vet will accept a credit card over the phone.

Posted 2 years ago by 2bpurring #
I completely agree with CBM; if anyone needs funding to assist sick/ill pets, it should be donated directly to the vet's office.

(Thanks, Marnet.)

Posted 2 years ago by Dee #
Just one thing about giving your credit card information over the phone. It's not secure and that's why I won't do that. Maybe that's just me but Mr. WWM and I have had our credit card scammed four times this year alone and that has made me very, very leery. With chip-in, since it's using PayPal, it's secure.

I would be more than willing to donate directly to the vet's office, but I want to know that I can do that in a manner that is secure.

My point is, I guess, that there are always variables in these cases. And just because someone puts up a chip-in site sure doesn't mean that you have to donate anything. It would be sad to throw out the baby with the bathwater, though. (oh gosh - that saying probably dates me!!!)

Posted 2 years ago by WillowandWindismom #
WWM, I use that saying myself!! As far as credit cards not secure, you have a very good point. I have one prepaid credit card that I only load a minimal dollar amount on and reload it when I need or want to. It is very easy to avoid fraud on a prepaid card, you quickly notice if money has been charged because of the available balance. If someone does ever get a hold of the number there is not much damage they can do and I can get a new card.

Posted 2 years ago by 2bpurring #
This will sound like a silly reason, I know (but it's me!) but the reason that I like to use PayPal, or just use my credit card, is that we get airline miles. Plus, I really don't want the hassle of dealing with other cards. Every time I go to fill up the car I have to think, "Now which card am I supposed to use????". My brain can only handle so much ;-)

Posted 2 years ago by WillowandWindismom #
If someone seems in need of help and you'd like to donate, why not just ask that person to email you personally? Then, a Chip-in link could be put on someone's Facebook/MySpace page and that link could be sent to other TDKers (using the Christmas card list). Or, you could ask this person, through email, for the name of his/her vet and just go from there. There have been many times when emails have been sent out to discuss helping out others on this site--whether through chip-in links or with gift cards.

Posted 2 years ago by FondaHonda #

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