Daily Kitten Chat Forum » Cats & Kittens

1. 

   http://fnes.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53:natures-worst&catid=4:the-blogs&Itemid=26

   Nature's Worst?

   Written by Lynette Ackman

   Friday, September 04, 2009 11:35 AM EDT

   Apparently they are giving out free samples of Hill's® "Nature's Best®" dry dog and cat food somewhere near where I work. Someone left a sample on the table at work yesterday and today there was a woman on the elevator holding three samples. I could not hold my tongue in the elevator and simply told her "You know, that is not very good pet food." She said "it's not?" I said "No, read the ingredients. Mostly grains, little meat. I used that exact pet food as an example of bad pet foods in a recent talk I gave on the subject, and why reading labels is important."

   I do not think feeding dry pet food is a good idea. I personally detest Hill's® pet foods. They use horrible quality ingredients and still use the controversial and suspected carcinogen ethoxyquin¹ as a preservative in some of their products — all under the guise of being "veterinarian recommended." Recommended by vets because they give free food to vet students and fund vet courses on animal nutrition² and market themselves heavily to vets. Not because they make good pet food.

   Apparently "Nature's Best®" means lots more grains — but lots of different types of grains, so they don't appear first on the ingredient listing:

   Ingredients: Chicken, Cracked Pearled Barley, Corn Gluten Meal, Whole Grain Oats, Brown Rice, Dried Egg Product, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Meal, Soy Protein Isolate, Brewers Rice, Cranberries, Apples, Carrots, Peas, Soybean Oil, Chicken Liver Flavor, Potassium Chloride, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Broccoli, Flaxseed, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, Oat Fiber, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Tryptophan, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

   Their slogan is: "Check the Label." Please do! If you read the label, I am sure you'll find there are much better options for your beloved pet.

   What does nature have to do with this pet food at all? Cats are carnivores, designed by nature to eat meat. They need moisture in their diet, have little need for vegetables, fruits or grains, and do best with no fiber added to their diet. In my opinion, this is a recipe for IBD, diabetes, FLUTD, CRF, obesity and a host of other ailments.

   ¹In 1997 the FDA sent letters to manufacturers of ethoxyquin and commercial pet food companies requesting that ethoxyquin used in pet foods be voluntarily lowered from 150 ppm (0.015%) to 75 ppm. Without further scientific investigation, ethoxyquin's health risks even in smaller amounts are highly worrisome, but cannot be fully determined.
   ² Michael W. Fox, Elizabeth Hodgkins, Marion E. Smart, Not Fit For a Dog, The Truth About Manufactured Dog and Cat Food, Quill Driver Books, 2009, pages 6-7

   Posted 2 years ago by furryfriends50 #

2. 

   I totally agree Cats=Carnivours!

   Posted 2 years ago by jeankit #

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   Same!

   And all my cats agree. They can not wait for fresh lamb heart tomorrow :D Their absolute fav. Unfortunatly because i feed raw i have to lie to the vet and contribute their health to their diet. If i were to say i fed raw i'd be yelled at and my cats wouldn't get fair treatment because "She is sick because she is fed raw". Oh yeah really, it was a perfectly treatable hurt paw. How can a cat hurt their paw by eating raw? I really wish their were vets around here that weren't SD and Iams advocates. I'd give as much as i could for their to be a raw advocate vet here. Therefore i do not trust what a vet says about nutrition. I have done way more studying on it than they have. Sorry for ranting just had to get that out.

   Posted 2 years ago by furryfriends50 #

4. 

   The vet profession is the same as the medical profession. Both are driven by links with drug companies, and under that umbrella comes pet food companies for vets. I was horrified to receive a glossy Hill's bag with kibble and a kitten diary from the vet my sumi was brought into as a rescue, when I brought her home with me.

   Y'know FF, I believe in feeding myself well, and therefore avoid certain processed foods, caffeine, wheat and sugar as best I can. I'm on a liver detox at the moment, giving my liver a holiday! I only eat meat twice a week at most. But I've learned that people don't really want to hear too much on this topic. And when I talk about doctors and nutrition, about diet and health, about cats and vets, about my cats' diet and their health, I know that it makes some people uncomfortable. It's a big industrial wheel, a vast market, and it's all about 'convenience'. So that we have more time to do what, exactly? Sit watching mindless TV or sit online, maybe? I work a long day and a long week. But I still have time to prepare my cats' meals. To me, my health and the health of my companions are important.

   Even my own vet told me to be careful with a raw diet. It took me a week or two (and information from you) to realise what he was vaguely referring to - the difference in digestion time between raw food and commercial food in a cat's gut. This is where the confusion, and potential danger, lies in many vets' and cat owners' minds. But he didn't have it clear, so he couldn't tell me what I needed to know. I am amazed that a vet thought there might be a danger of salmonella from good meat for a cat. He said it's also to do with how the animal is killed, that there are not enough controls here and there could be contamination (fecal matter) on the meat.

   In the same way, I think that humans should not consume too much meat, as our digestive tracts are the opposite off a cat's, ie, long, and therefore the meat sits around too long, and causes disease. That's why I limit my meat intake.

   Posted 2 years ago by eleniki #

5. 

   Which wet food do you recommend I feed my 9 week kitten and which dry or wet food should I feed my three 1yr old cats? The kitten is now on Hill's a/d wet and the cats eat Iams Proactive Health dry.

   Posted 2 years ago by Renee #

6. 

   "¹In 1997 the FDA sent letters to manufacturers of ethoxyquin and commercial pet food companies requesting that ethoxyquin used in pet foods be voluntarily lowered from 150 ppm (0.015%) to 75 ppm. Without further scientific investigation, ethoxyquin's health risks even in smaller amounts are highly worrisome, but cannot be fully determined."

   This is common practice for the FDA when people have anecdotal claims of harmful products that have not been verified by controlled studies yet. This is what happened with MSG back when it started making big news. Turns out that MSG isn't bad for you after all, but most people still think it is because the FDA said at first, "Well, we'll warn people to be careful about it until further research is done."

   "MSG as a food ingredient has been the subject of health studies. A report from the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) compiled in 1995 on behalf of the FDA concluded that MSG was safe for most people when "eaten at customary levels." However, it also said that, based on anecdotal reports, some people may have an MSG intolerance which causes "MSG symptom complex" — commonly referred to as Chinese restaurant syndrome — and/or a worsening of asthmatic symptoms.[11] Subsequent research found that while large doses of MSG given without food may elicit more symptoms than a placebo in individuals who believe that they react adversely to MSG, the frequency of the responses was low and the responses reported were inconsistent, not reproducible, and were not observed when MSG was given with food.[12] While many people believe that MSG is the cause of these symptoms, a statistical association has not been demonstrated under controlled conditions, even in studies with people who were convinced that they were sensitive to it.[12][13][14][15] Adequately controlling for experimental bias includes a placebo-controlled double-blinded experimental design and the application in capsules because of the strong and unique after-taste of glutamates.[13]"
   (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate)

   The problem is that once the FDA says something like that, people will always be worried about the product, even after research conclusively shows that there are no harmful results. Another example - look at what happened with rumors over the MMR vaccine causing autism. In 1998 twelve researchers said there may be a link between the preservative in the vaccine and autism. Afterwards...
   - The FDA recommended that until further research was done, the preservative used in vaccines should be switched out for something else (which all the vaccine manufacturers did)
   - There have been many studies done since then and they all show no link at all between vaccines and autism.
   - 10 of the 12 original researchers retracted their original assertions that the vaccines could have led to autism.
   And yet there are still wackos out there refusing to vaccinate their kids. This is the result:

   "After vaccination rates dropped, the incidence of two of the three diseases increased greatly in the UK. In 1998 there were 56 confirmed cases of measles in the UK; in 2006 there were 449 in the first five months of the year, with the first death since 1992; cases occurred in inadequately vaccinated children. Mumps cases began rising in 1999 after years of very few cases, and by 2005 the United Kingdom was in a mumps epidemic with almost 5000 notifications in the first month of 2005 alone."
   (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy)

   My point is that the FDA's recommendation to limit ethoxyquin doesn't mean it's a harmful substance. If it were known to be harmful to pets, it would have already been removed from the market. If future research does show that it's a harmless substance, I hope you'll be honest enough to stop holding it against "Nature's Best" pet foods. It sounds like there are still plenty of reasons to prefer other pet food brands over it.

   Posted 2 years ago by GhostOfColemanYoung #

7. 

   "I am amazed that a vet thought there might be a danger of salmonella from good meat for a cat. He said it's also to do with how the animal is killed, that there are not enough controls here and there could be contamination (fecal matter) on the meat."

   Are you saying that you ignore your vet's advice to be careful about feeding your cat raw meat that contains whatever contaminants were on it when it was killed? It seems irresponsible to me to ignore your vet's advice because of vague conflict of interest concerns with pet food companies.

   I'm not an expert, but why don't you think you need to worry about your cat getting salmonella? From here, it looks like cats get salmonella the same way people do:
   http://www.cat-world.com.au/SalmonellosisInCats.htm

   Posted 2 years ago by GhostOfColemanYoung #

8. 

   If cats could get salmonella they would have died a long long time ago and become extinct. Cats have little risk of getting salmonella contrary to popular belief. Making your own cats food is not a fad, i think that more and more people are going to start doing it. I have hope that in my lifetime their will no longer be dry food. One store chain already stopped and refuses to sell dry.

   Yes i ingnore my vet. They know nothing about feline nutrition just like human docters.

   explore fnes.org. you'll see why cats are MADE to eat raw meat.

   @renee: hey that's my sisters name lol! EVO i think is one of the best wet foods out their. try to stop feeding dry food completly. By Nature wet is available at petsmart and i think it is great. Felidae wet, Innova, and Natural Balance are also good. Instinct is another.

   Posted 2 years ago by furryfriends50 #

9. 

   'Therefore i do not trust what a vet says about nutrition. I have done way more studying on it than they have.'

   Although it's nice to find a 17 YEAR OLD with such passion about a topic, I'd venture to say that maybe this is a subject (like declawing, inside/outside cats, etc.) that should be commented on elsewhere. Please read Kittenmaster's rules. . .

   *shaking teacher head at the thought of another teenage who doesn't realize that I is always capitalized. . .*

   Posted 2 years ago by FondaHonda #

10. 

    Yes I may be only 17. I know that is young. However I have read lots about feline nutrition. I've written papers about it for fun. The typical vet gets maybe a three hour class sponsered by a company like Hills. I've researched lots online and read as many books that i can about nutrition. I may not remember much from what I learn in school but stuff about cats sticks.

    I also practice what I learn. Mine are all fed raw and I have never seen healthier cats. I realize that many people (mainly vets) do not agree with me. However there are way more people that do. Raw feeding is not a fad. I believe that soon the majority of pet owners are going to start feeding all raw or wet. There is a store chain that has already started to refuse to stock any dry food. My hope is that in the next 50 years dry food will be banned in the USA. I believe that in 10 years the majority of vets will recommend wet food as they learn better. Their are lots of vets that have turned over to "the raw side" and sell prepackaged raw in their offices.

    Posted 2 years ago by furryfriends50 #

11. 

    I reviewed the prerequisites for all the major US veterinary schools here: http://www.aavmc.org/vmcas/college_requirement.htm

    They all require at least a semester-long class on animal nutrition just for admission; hardly a "three hour course sponsered (sic) by a company like Hill's".

    Posted 2 years ago by Kilroy #

12. 

    There are so many fields of human knowledge which have done complete U-turns within a decade. I agree with FF that feline nutrition will be one of those fields. We look back at the thinking of 20 or 30 years ago now and wonder at it. Look at the whole area of human diet, how that is constantly evolving.

    GhostofCY, I have not ignored my vet's advice. I am indeed careful, just as he advised. I am so careful that I read as much information from as many sources as I can find on the subject of feline (and human) nutrition. It is a great interest of mine. I would go so far as to say that I have read far more on the subject than any of the vets who treat my cats down in the clinic. I buy human-grade meat from organic local butchers. My vet was referring to people who throw their cats bits of mince or battery-raised chicken every so often, failing to realize that a cat who is fed a mix of commercial and raw food is at risk of becoming ill.

    Thanks for the link. I read it, and am interested in the following:

    "Salmonellosis isn't seen very often in cats & it is believed they have a natural immunity to the bacteria. Risk factors which can make a cat more susceptible to salmonellosis include cats in high stress situations & environments, cats who's natural resistance has been compromised due to another infection, general poor health status, hospitalised animals & kittens. Kittens are more likely to be clinically affected than adult cats."

    "Cats are most commonly infected via contaminated food or catching infected animals. In fact, Salmonellosis in cats has been called "song bird fever" due to it's association with cats acquiring infection from hunted birds."

    My cats do not hunt, nor do I feed them wild birds or other prey. Cats who hunt for themselves are at a certain risk, but probably a significantly smaller one than the slow-building diseases that affect so many cats and dogs since the relatively recent explosion of the huge market that is commercial petfood. I include my previous cat in this, as I didn't know then what I know now. She lived to be 18 none-the-less, but really only due to much veterinary intervention, at huge cost to me, and gain to them. This is where the symbiotic relationship between petfood companies and the veterinary profession relates to us directly. If we step out of the commercial feeding loop, vets stand to lose, so, naturally, they discourage us from reverting to a natural feline diet.

    Posted 2 years ago by eleniki #

13. 

    Fondahonda, with all due respect to your experience in life, for which I grant you there is no substitute, if we were to allow age to be the gauge of what is laudable, then Mozart would never have been recognized, and Michael Jackson would be just another pop star!
    I have huge respect for your focused and methodical approach to feline nutrition, FF, and I fully expect to be reading your opus on the subject, some ten or fifteen years from now (if I'm still around - that's the downside of the whole experience-of-life thing...) I too am a teacher, and I love to see passion like yours in one so young, as it almost always translates to future brilliance. That's how it has to start, with passion.

    Posted 2 years ago by eleniki #

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