Daily Kitten Chat Forum » Purrs

1. 

   Hello.

   I recently found four little kittens near my house, abandoned in a box. From the looks of it, i thought they were only 1 week old, but after seeing some posts on-line and discovering they still have ombilical chords attached, i realized they were probably fresh newborns.

   I managed to obtain two different formulas, as i live in Romania and adequate kitten milk replacement is not obtainable or is extremely expensive. The first one involves human powder milk combined with an egg yolk, a very small drop of honey, a drop or two of lemon juice and a little spoon of cream. The other one, which i haven't tried yet, contains the same powder milk combined with yogurt and mayonnaise. First off, id like to ask which of these two formulas are the best, as i cannot really afford or get milk replacement for kitties.

   They seem very fit, have grown about 1 centimeter and 10 grams over the last 2 days, are not bloated, urinate frequently and each of them pooped once. They do not even cry when fed, and sleep and eat 90% of the time, which i was told is healthy.

   However, since yesterday, i have not seen any poop come out of any of them and this worries me. As they are not bloated and urinate, and as i have seen that normal pooping occurs 24-48 hours after feeding in the first week, i don't really want to insist (i do stimulate them properly with a slightly damp cloth or towel), but still, if any advice that is useful can be given id really appreciate it.

   Also, what other advice can you give me? They are being kept at optimal temperature and they are also keeping their bodies hot at all times, they are eating 2-4 ml of the above mentioned formula every 3 hours, about 7 times a day, and are very active, but id like to know what do i have to do to know they will survive for sure.

   P.S. A vet is not very accessible for me, as they are extremely expensive and i sadly can't afford it, being a student.

   Thank you.

   Posted 2 years ago by Luppi #

2. 

   Hi Luppi! How nice that you were able to rescue the kittens! It sound like your are doing all the right things and the kittens are thriving because of it. Kuddo's

   If you look up to the right corner you will see a "tag" box, by clicking on some tags you can get some great advice by some of the veterans on the site and links to good video's.

   Personally having never had a kitten that young I can't give advice but wanted to welcome you!

   Good Luck & Keep us posted

   Posted 2 years ago by Poof #

3. 

   Sounds like you are doing a good job! I've never had to raise a kitty on anything other than kmr, so I cant really comment on the 'recipe' you are using. The honey and the egg yolk is fine, but I dont understand what the purpose of the lemon juice is? As far as cream goes, it has been said that cats cannot tolerate cow-milk products. I have never had any experience with it being bad for my cats, they drink milk regularly, but I would not give it to a baby kitten (but then again, I've never been in your situation). I know there will be people on this site who are going to disagree with me, but personaly I would say if it hasnt been doing them harm this far down the line, I would just be hopeful that it doesnt become a problem in future. If they do develop diahrea however, the cream would be the first thing I would take out of their diet. I remember that there was once someone here on tdk who raised kittens just on normal human baby formula, and they were fine with it, so maybe you could try that? As far as poop goes, for tiny babies I find that every 2-3 days per poop is normal. Good luck!

   Posted 2 years ago by Skyron #

4. 

   Sounds like you are doing a wonderful, wonderful job. Another possibility for the kittens would be canned goats milk (or fresh if you can get it). And Skyron hasn't given you her magical website, which has heaps of fantastic information on rearing kittens: http://www.messybeast.com/handrear.htm

   Posted 2 years ago by jcat #

5. 

   The lemon juice is for the C-vitamin, they were sneezing a bit and after the first couple of meals they stopped, so that helped. The cream...frankly, i have no idea and ill take it out of their diet. On a second note, i will buy goat milk today and add (this was recommended to me) bovine colostrum, lactoferrine and taurine. Will this be a lot better or should i stick with my formula?

   About the worm issue, all the vets i called said i should not address it for another week or two, but some people keep hinting i can do something as early as now. Is this a possibility?

   Posted 2 years ago by Luppi #

6. 

   I'm wondering whether the cream (and mayonnaise in the other diet) is to give an extra dollop of fat/calories to the little ones. I would take it out if their little tummies get upset, as Skyron suggested, but if they seem to be thriving on it, leave it for now. The goats milk with the additions sounds very good, I would think that would be preferable, but keep a close eye on them. As long as they keep gaining weight, you'll be doing well! I wouldn't try doing anything about the worms just yet; they are so tiny, if the vets recommended leaving it for a week, that's exactly what I would do. Good luck!

   Posted 2 years ago by jcat #

7. 

   Thing is today they cry a lot. In the beginning, using the normal cow-s milk with the added cream and stuff, they ate and slept, but since yesterday, when i switched to powder, they started being more active and crying a lot more in-between meals. Is this upsetting their stomach?

   Posted 2 years ago by Luppi #

8. 

   Hard to say, Luppi. It might be the change in diet that's upsetting their tummies or they might just be becoming more active as they get older and more nutrition in them -- i.e. it might be a good sign. They might also be missing their mother. But I would stick with the powder until you can get the goats milk, which I do think should be better.

   Posted 2 years ago by jcat #

9. 

   I would say watch their poop - what was it like when they were on the cow-milk mix? If they were ok on that, leave it. I must say though, from what I've heard, goat milk, just plain goat milk, is said to be the best thing for raising kittens. Better than kmr apparently. We dont have goats here in the city where I live, so I've never tried it.

   Posted 2 years ago by Skyron #

10. 

    While on cow-milk they pooped yellow-black-ish tubular shaped poop. Now they hardly poop, but what does come out of them is all-yellow. I just fed them 10 minutes ago and they are sound asleep, so i guess it was just them reaching out and finding each-other, missing their mother and becoming more active.

    Their chords fell off, they are even sucking on the syringe themselves, no need to push it in, eating 4 ml steady mixture.

    Posted 2 years ago by Luppi #

11. 

    It sounds like it's going well :) I would say yellow poop is definitely preferable to yellow-black poop. As well as Skyron's site, this is another good one: http://www.kittenrescue.org/pages.php?pageid=15

    Posted 2 years ago by jcat #

12. 

    This is kind of an emergency. I had to protect the kittens from my 1 year old cat and one took a dive from my palm to the carpet on it's right side, hitting it's head and right foot a little. Nothing broke, he still walks and howls like the rest of them, had a normal meal afterwards, it's just that he didn't move for 3-4 seconds after the fall and appeared dead. I massaged it's head and heart and he got back to moving in a jiffy. Can i expect him to die or any other long term injury because of this? As i said, he ate and walked around pretty much like the rest of them do, but because he is the weakest, he doesn't have the same balance.

    Posted 2 years ago by Luppi #

13. 

    Kittens are quite resilient little creatures. Being small & limp actually helps them absorb & dissipate the impact from things that they hit/bump in to. Just watch him closely. The big warning sign for me is always when they stop eating, so i'd say you're ok.

    Posted 2 years ago by Skyron #

14. 

    Awwww bless you for taking such good, loving care of these precious babies!!! :) You are a good meowmy!

    Posted 2 years ago by bumblebee #

15. 

    Question: is your 1 year old cat actually acting aggressive (hissing, spitting, puffing up, laying back ears) toward the kittens? Or is your cat curious about them (sniffing, wide eyed, wanting to get up close)? While it's possible for cats to be aggressive, I've more often seen cats that were intensely curious - and who then proceeded to become "substitute mom" for the kittens.

    If aggression is really the problem, then definitely protect the kittens from the cat; keep them in a separate room if at all possible. But if it's not actually aggression, you just might get some unexpected help.

    Posted 2 years ago by anncetera2 #

16. 

    My one year old cat is an ocicat, fully vaccinated and pedigreed or whatever you call it. At first, she was hissing at us and the kitties for giving them attention. After a day, we started petting our original cat while feeding the others, and since then, she has become very curious. She comes and puts her head in the box when she hears meows coming out of there, and she smells them while she's wide-eyed. I just can't let my heart accept that she won't hurt them because during all the smelling she's very inconstant, she emits the same sounds while in heat and after smelling one she runs away and then comes back with the same attitude. Even though hissing stopped, that sound is just crazy and i don't know what to think. She tried to grab one by the neck i think, but somehow she licked half the neck and half the face (the weakest of the litter), but still, i'm quamed.

    Posted 2 years ago by Luppi #

17. 

    Bump.

    Posted 2 years ago by jcat #

18. 

    It sounds like she wants to be maternal, but isn't quite sure how (understandable). You might want to spend some time supervising her interaction with the kittens, and petting her and praising her when she demonstrates appropriate behavior.

    Curious behavior is appropriate. Hissing or yowling is not; don't pet her when she does that. She'll likely get the idea very quickly that her positive attentions to the kittens are just fine by you.

    Posted 2 years ago by anncetera2 #

19. 

    Today she started licking them all over, washing them and making them pee, so it looks like i'll get some help, although i don't know how much of it or how much it matters.

    Posted 2 years ago by Luppi #

20. 

    Believe me, pee duty becomes really old really fast. If she can potty train him that would be great. People just cant potty train the way kitties can.

    Posted 2 years ago by Skyron #

21. 

    Luppi, your ocicat sounds like she's beginning to understand what this "kitten" thing is all about! Yay!! You've gained an invaluable partner when it comes to the kittens learning what weaning and litter training are all about (especially the messier parts involved).

    Just keep a towel or blanket down for her and the kittens, and change it out for a fresh one at least once daily. Keep feeding the kittens as normal, and when you're done feeding one, set it directly under her chin so she'll start licking. And make sure a litterbox is nearby, with plain non-clumping litter and low sides (or something for the kittens to climb on top of in order to get into the litterbox). Shallow litter will be better than deep; nothing deeper than an inch right now.

    Give your ocicat plenty of love and attention; she's come a very long way in just a couple of days!

    Posted 2 years ago by anncetera2 #

22. 

    Well, a week passed and everything seemed okay, they opened their eyes, eat right and poop and pee all day long, but today i got a problem. One of the "older and more developed ones", makes a weird sound like she's wheezing when she's actually meowing. She eats pretty much okay but had about a couple of days of diarreah mixed with one solid poop last morning and watery poo last night. I fed all of them a little water too after this, so they don't dehydrate, but that sound is really nasty, she's trying to meow and has this wheezing, whistleing back-sound. What's wrong?

    Posted 2 years ago by Luppi #

23. 

    Wow, I just saw this. Luppi you're a hero. I'd never had to handle more than one newborn at once!

    The kitty may just be having a cold or it could be early signs of pneumonia. It's hard to say. She may have sucked milk into her lungs. 2 of my rescues who were only 10 days and 15 days old when I found them had this wheezing problem too (because I was still new to kitty rescue and was probably doing something wrong). The important thing is to keep them warm, eating and drinking. If it gets worse you may have to treat her with antibiotics. Do you think you can ring up a vet and check if things gets worse (and I pray they don't)?

    Do keep us posted.

    Posted 2 years ago by Khom #

24. 

    What kind of antibiotics should i give them? I'll ring up a vet when i get back from school as well, and keep them eating and drinking as usual, thing is she's more lethargic and that whistle sound is just sad.

    Posted 2 years ago by Luppi #

25. 

    Lethargic is not good, when a kitten goes 'flat' (limp and unresponsive) then, in my admittedly limited experience, it is time to get them to the vet.

    Posted 2 years ago by jcat #

26. 

    Don't get me wrong, she's not exactly limp and unresponsive, but she moved around quite a lot before and now when i get her out of the box for a little walk she stands around, does a few steps in all directions and whistles at me when she meows. What exactly can i do if she aspired milk into her lungs?

    Posted 2 years ago by Luppi #

27. 

    I agree with JCat. This requires a vet. Both my above-mentioned rescues showed these symptoms of pneumonia and an early dose of antibiotics made a world of difference. I really can't advice you on what to give because first you must be sure she's having pneumonia and then the vet will tell you what antibiotics and how much. I know you're a student and this can all be pricey but please try and see if you can work out something with the vet (installments perhaps?)? Good luck Luppi. Praying for you.

    Posted 2 years ago by Khom #

28. 

    Luppi, if she did aspirate milk into her lungs, then it causes an infection in there and that's the pneumonia. It's impossible for us to know whether she did or not.

    One very experienced co-worker at the shelter I help out at, always puts wheezing kittens to her ear. She says, if the wheezing is coming from the head, that's okay, it's just a cold, if the wheezing or rattling is coming from the chest, that's when you need to start worrying. I'm not confident I could tell the difference but you could try it and see where the wheezing's coming from.

    Also, if it's a cold, I would also expect to see crusts around the eyes and nose (as kittens can't blow their noses the way we can).

    Posted 2 years ago by jcat #

29. 

    Luppi, the trouble is, as with human babies, 9 times out of 10, it's nothing to worry about but the 10th time it is, and none of us can tell you which it is, you have to go on your instincts as their caregiver.

    This is from the messybeast.com website (given earlier) about when a kitten is wheezing or rattling:

    RESPIRATORY DISTRESS

    Respiratory distress is a symptom of many conditions including infection, aspiration pneumonia, near drowning, shock, heat stroke, fluid in the chest cavity. Irregular or shallow breathing indicates serious illness. Unless you can immediately identify and treat the cause e.g. treat heat stroke, seek veterinary advice immediately.

    Respiratory problems may also be due to obstruction of airways e.g. with discharge from an infection, swelling from an injury, inhalation of clumping cat litter. If the obstruction is immediately obvious and visible you may be able to remove it yourself by bathing the nasal area. Obstructions inside the nose or windpipe require veterinary treatment. Some short nosed breeds may show respiratory signs related to their altered facial proportions.

    Nasal discharges indicate various problems. Pus indicates an infection or foreign object inside the nose. Trickles or bubbles of milk indicate cleft palate. A bloody discharge may indicate serious lung problems and, unless the blood is obviously from a superficial wound, bloody nasal discharge requires immediate veterinary attention.

    Posted 2 years ago by jcat #

30. 

    I think my bad English skills sent everyone on a wild goose chase. I don't think wheezing is the word that applies here. She doesn't have hard or labored breathing, she is just a bit more inactive and has a little whistle on the end of each meow. I think my mom called a vet and he said it might be due to over-feeding, but i will keep an eye out and if i see her sneeze, discharge anything or start breathing hard and slip into lethargy i will get antibiotics from the vet to get that fluid out of the lungs and prevent pneumonia.

    Posted 2 years ago by Luppi #

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