Daily Kitten Chat Forum » Purrs

1. 

   (TL;DR is all the way at the bottom for those not willing to read a very large post. =p )

   June 10, 2010; 8am

   My sister was called to a friend's house for an emergency. One of her cats gave birth to a kitten and right after abandoned it. (without a doubt, this was a young female who had no experience in caring for a kitten). The placenta was still attached and my sister had to cut the umbilical cord. She had to clean the poor little kitten which she claimed was CAKED in mud and chilled to the bone. He was not moving and he was not making any sounds.

   After warming him up and the like, he was finally able to eat. Afterward, my sister brought him home, deciding that our friend could not properly care for the kitten since they neither had formula, a bottle, or a safe environment for it. At this time, I took over and started to take care of the little kitten. After perhaps an hour later, my sister calls me and says our friend is dropping off another kitten...She found ANOTHER newborn kitten who was still attached to the placenta and who had also been abandoned.

   I cleaned this one and warmed her up. After sometime later, my sister and I fed them both every few hours and stimulated them to defecate after each meal. The temperature for them is at a constant and the kittens seem very pleased. I however am not.

   The little male was the first kitten we got. He's extremely active however I'm concerned about his nose. To me and my sister it seems very red and swollen. His breathing is normal-not a murmur or gargle in it but we are worried he may have gotten mud or something up his nose which is agitating it. Another theory we have is that he's agitating it himself since he burrows and shoves his face rather hard into the towel we have for him and his sister as well as our hands. He's also a fussy eater but once he gets the nipple in his mouth he starts suckling immediately.

   I also noticed an hour ago after feeding him that his stomach is rather enlarged and seems stretched/tight. He still seems rather content though but I'm still concerned. I cannot take these two little kittens to the vet because I have absolutely NO money. Unfortunately, I live with my parents and have no job, so I don't have a penny to my name right now. Asking them to help would start another fight, seeing as they wanted to throw the kittens back outside when it was down pouring here...I just can't be that cruel. I want to give these kittens a chance but I'm unable to take them to a vet for a serum colostrum or anything else for that matter.

   I'd simply like some insight as to why the little male's nose seems so red and swollen (to me anyway) and what's up with his stomach being rather large.

   (TL;DR)I got two extremely young kittens (1-2 hours old when I first acquired them) who I doubt even got the chance to nurse from their mother after birth. I'm looking for help-as much help as possible due to the fact that I am unable to take these two little kittens to the vet. I've tried to ask help from shelters, pet stores and the like but no go. Please help with any advise!

   Posted 1 year ago by calico_grey #

2. 

   Welcome to TDK. I don't have answers for you but there are many members on the forum experienced with fostering infant kittens. Please be sure to "bump" this thread to the top of the topic list a time or two starting about 6 a.m. Eastern Time so that the morning regulars see your questions. When you see a thread started as the Friday "cafe" you can also post there requesting people look at this thread for all the details of your situation. However, please don't post the entire explanation in the cafe thread -- that is where folks say hi to each other for the morning -- but you can briefly post there that you are new and would appreciate anyone experienced with tiny newborn kittens to look at this thread here.

   You might also try calling local veterinarians to see if any of them have a program like my vet does of taking in orphaned and/or abandoned kittens, fostering them until they are old enough to adopt out, and then putting them up for adoption at the vet. I'll warn you that very few vets do this but you might get lucky and find one who does. All it costs you is some time spent making phone calls.

   Good luck.

   Posted 1 year ago by Marnet #

3. 

   It sounds as if you have kitten milk replacer and at least one nursing bottle. Keep the equipment clean, and make sure the milk is body-temperature when feeding the kittens. Feed the kittens while they're in a belly-down position; this helps make sure they get enough milk, without sucking in extra air or aspirating milk.

   Keep the kittens warm. A hot water bottle refilled every couple of hours will help; so will an old cotton sock, filled with dry rice and heated in a microwave oven for 30 seconds to 1 minute every couple of hours. Make sure any heat sources are wrapped in a towel (no direct contact with kittens) and are only to one side of the kittens, so if they're too warm they can crawl a little bit away from the warmth. Keep them comfortably warm and draft-free; they can't regulate their body temperatures until they're older.

   If it's at all possible, if you're in the US, find a pet store that carries Bene-Bac and purchase some! It's a bacterial supplement that helps make up for newborns that haven't had the chance to nurse from their mama (and get the very beneficial colostrum).

   Feeding every couple of hours would be best right now, with at least 1 or 2 feedings during your sleep cycle. If they had their mama right now, they'd be feeding at-will, which means off and on all day and all night.

   You'll need to stimulate them to pee and poop. Hopefully someone will come along soon to post the tags or links that will help demonstrate how this is best done. I'd try both before and after feedings.

   As far as the red nose on the kitten, I can't help advise you. That kitten needs to see a vet. Call around to vets and find out if there's one who could see you and waive the office visit fee (or accept a donation of whatever you can afford). In the meantime, do what you can to ensure the kitten's nostrils are kept clear.

   Good luck! They're very high-maintenance when they're newborn, but they will be the two most affectionate, loving kitties you've ever seen, provided they are able to survive their rough start in life.

   Posted 1 year ago by anncetera2 #

4. 

   Hi, Calico Grey, you've got some wonderful advice from Ann, there's not much more I can offer. I added the pink tag "orphans" -- click on this and you'll see many previous threads on this subject with some very good advice. I'll also add these very useful sites on hand-rearing kittens:
   http://www.messybeast.com/handrear.htm
   http://www.kittenrescue.org/pages.php?pageid=15
   http://www.fanciers.com/cat-faqs/orphans.shtml
   http://www.feralcat.com/raising.html

   You sound to me like you very much know what you're doing already but keep checking back here because more people will come on through the day. Also come back with any specific questions you might have. I can't help with the nose but I think the main thing for now is that he's eating and breathing properly. The messybeast site has a section on respiratory problems.

   Is his stomach hard? or soft? If it's hard, then it's time to worry. If it's soft, not so much. Newborns have such tiny stomachs, and can hold such a little amount of milk, that it's probably not unusual for him to have a bulging belly if he's just filled it to the brim. He probably also almost certainly has worms, which gives kittens a swollen belly. (He's too young to treat right now though.)

   Is your friend intending to get her cat spayed? or this will go on happening. Do you know of another female cat who is nursing kittens? as if you could find a feline foster mum, the kittens' chances of survival are much enhanced (and you won't get quite so exhausted). Anyway, you are a star for helping these babies, best of luck!

   Posted 1 year ago by jcat #

5. 

   The nose thing is an indicator of their temprature. You will notice when he's cold his nose will turn pale again. Its a good thing, so dont worry about it. See if you can get the other kitten's nose to pink up too. And just make sure that they can get away from the heat source if they get too hot.

   Posted 1 year ago by Skyron #

6. 

   Thank you all very much for the feedback and the links. So far so good! I would like to say something about the defecation though.

   Now I've read many different things about it concerning the times when you should stimulate the kitten. As far as these two little ones go, they absolutely will NOT accept being bothered after being fed. They fight my sister and I every turn and want nothing more then to conk out after eating.

   Because of this, my sister and I have let them sleep it off until they wake up (individually so far). Perhaps it's too early to assume anything, but they wake up 15-20 minutes after eating. That's when I attempt to make them use the bathroom and it works like a charm. They're more willing at this time to be bothered again. I have offered a bottle to them as well...sometimes they refuse and other times they'll suckle but not as aggressively as they do every 2 hours.

   Interestingly enough they are eliminating waste on their own and this concerns me somewhat. Is this normal or should I be more determined to stimulate them to use the bathroom after every feeding?

   Concerning the nose:

   I think it's just him. I woke up today after my "shift" of caring for the two was over. I checked on them the moment I woke up and my sister was in the process of feeding them. Both of their noses are and have been red since they were warmed and began to feed....his nose just seems very large for his face though, which is why I was concerned. Hopefully I can get a picture of him and his sister and paste the link to be seen.

   Concerning the stomach:

   It's soft. Actually, when I was helping my sister hold him so she can offer the bottle to him I noticed his stomach wasn't as ballooned as it was last night. After feeding however, it was back to being large. He's a very aggressive feeder. Fussy, yes, but once he realizes the bottle has milk for him he practically inhales it. His sister doesn't have a very large stomach like he does after she eats but she also paces herself much better then he does. She will refuse the bottle after a while and simply want to be left alone.

   PS: Thank you very much Ann!!! I will definitely look into Bene-Bac. My sister is the only one willing to spend money on these kittens (other then me if I had a job..-_-) so I will tell her about it and call our vets to see if they carry it. Thank you again!

   As well as that, my friend has millions of cats. I dislike it completely-entirely actually since they bring kittens home, never spay/neuter them, and then toss them outside. Her property is now overrun by millions of them...My main concern right now though is getting these little guys put on the right road to a healthy and stimulating long life.

   Posted 1 year ago by calico_grey #

7. 

   I hope you're able to help find a low-cost spay/neuter clinic for your friend. Regarding the kitten's nose, he may just have a big nose pad. And if he's an aggresive feeder, that would explain the belly (and it's changing size). Sounds like you're doing great, so far!

   Posted 1 year ago by anncetera2 #

8. 

   Welcome CG...It sounds like you've got your hands full. It's wonderful that you & your sister are trying to save these babies. It's a shame that their mama doesn't have the instinct to care for them. A kitten having kittens can result in such tragedy. Good Luck to you on giving thes 2 a second chance in life.
   May I suggest also that your friend get in touch with a rescue program that could possibly help in TNRing the rest of her,excuse the term, insane number of kitties. There are rescue groups out there that could help curb the breeding & overpopulating of them. Large colonies of feral cats like hers can cause such pain & suffering for the animals & can become a health hazard to which all of them could become infected w/disease. I hope your friend will make some kind of effort in stopping the breeding cycle.
   Good luck to you & your sister in caring for these little darlings. They have to be cute as buttons.

   Posted 1 year ago by feral #

9. 

   Update:

   It's day three and I'm extremely concerned. The little female seems to be listless.I'm not sure what to do other then keep her warm. I just finished feeding her. She took the milk easily but she seems more sleepy then usual after eating. She hasn't meowed or tried to and even holding her on her back didn't bring forth a good reaction. She simply curled into a ball and let her head fall back on my fingers.

   Please, if anyone knows something, please tell me. I realize there's not much I can do for her if she's fading but I'm not sure if I'm just over reacting or not.

   Posted 1 year ago by calico_grey #

10. 

    Does the female kitten appear to be dehydrated? When you pinch a fold of skin between her shoulder blades, does it settle back down onto her back or stay tented for a bit? If it stays tented, she needs fluids ASAP. A vet can give her fluids subcutaneously.

    Some kittens don't make it for unknown reasons. I've heard it referred to as fading kitten syndrome. I wonder if you might be able to find a lactating queen who would accept these kittens as she would her own. That could give them a boost that no amount of bottle feeding can. Good luck with them. Please keep posting and checking back for more ideas.

    Posted 1 year ago by Kitten Whisperer #

11. 

    I called my vet. (As I've mentioned before though these kittens are unable to be seen by a vet due to the fact that I have no money and my parents refuse to spend money on them) but I did call my vet hospital and I told her what was going on and went into further detail then I did here...which I should have done rather then having a moment of panic.

    The little female kitten's urine was clear and lacked a potent odor. My sister set up the formula for the kittens before she went to work but she watered it down a bit because the little male was a little dehydrated. My vet and I think that this is why she's so weak...She isn't getting enough formula and that's also another reason why her urine was practically clear and lacked odor. (Of course though, she could just be fading but it's worth a shot to try anything right?)

    I've set up a new batch of formula for her with the regular amount. When she wakes up for her next feeding I will give her this batch as well as the male just to make sure he stays active and fit. (He's perked up quite a bit since day one.) I will also write back an update about how the female is....hopefully she'll be a little more active and/or still be alive.

    Posted 1 year ago by calico_grey #

12. 

    Keep up the great work, CG!! I'm glad you are able to consult with a vet.

    Posted 1 year ago by Kitten Whisperer #

13. 

    Update: just fed her. she was willing to eat. I have her in my hand right now and checked for dehydration, yes her skin stays tented up unlike her brothers....I;m about ready to get on my knees and beg my mother for some cash but I doubt she'll say yes to a vet visit for this little one...

    Is there anything i can do to hydrate her just enough so she can push through? She's moving and able to lift her head and the like so perhaps i still have time?....or perhaps I'm just being hopeful...

    Posted 1 year ago by calico_grey #

14. 

    Kittens go downhill fast when they are dehydrated. This one needs to get to a vet to get subQ fluids. If that is not possible, offer her all the fluid you can. If you can get some unflavored pedialyte (found in the baby section at most grocery stores) it is helpful in balancing the kitten's electrolytes.

    Dehydration is a very serious medical condition. She is unlikely to survive without a trip to the vet.

    Posted 1 year ago by Kitten Whisperer #

15. 

    Push fluids into her. Water is better than nothing, Gatorade is better than water, pedialyte is better than Gatorade, a vet is best of all because s/he can give her subcutaneous fluids, which is instant hydration, and can show you how to keep doing them at home.

    You can also make up a pedialyte solution at home: Here's the link: http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf792836.tip.html

    Smear some Karo corn syrup (no blobs, nothing she could choke on) across her mouth to give her a bit more energy. If you can get hold of it, Nutrical high calory paste is great; do the same thing. If it's simply that she's weak and dehydrated, nutrical and pedialyte can save kitten lives.

    (Of course, there is so much that can go wrong with these little orphans, not least because once they stop getting their mother's milk, they lose her antibodies and any viruses they may have picked up then kick in.)

    This is another good site for general information: http://www.messybeast.com/handrear.htm

    You are wonderful for looking after these babies, I hope the little one pulls through. {{{Hugs}}}

    Posted 1 year ago by jcat #

16. 

    I'm so sad right now. She livened up a bit after eating but I just checked on her recently and she really didn't respond all that well again. It's like a rollercoaster right now. one minute she's just active enough to look like she'll pull through and then I turn around and she's back again to being rather listless.

    She made some sound after I fed her, and she did eat eagerly (not as eagerly as the other times) but she does still want to eat. I'm getting some pedialyte now and I'm hoping this will help her at least become a little more active.

    For the pedialyte though, how many times should I give it to her? She eats every 1 1/2 - 2 hours. Should I just give it to her during her normal desires to eat or should I try giving it to her every few minutes? (If this info is in the links, I'm very sorry for not checking first).

    Posted 1 year ago by calico_grey #

17. 

    Don't worry, Calico, you're busy and stressed out, I'll put the info from the Messy Beast on rehydration at the end of this post.

    The fact that she's eating is wonderful. I am no expert so am just guesstimating but I would try giving her a little pedialyte after every meal and between meals too -- maybe once every half hour. I would also really recommend trying the Nutri-cal if you can get it, as she needs energy to keep fighting, and the Karo syrup if you can't. But read the instrux below as they are much more precise (although they assume that the kitten isn't taking any formula at all and yours is, so you're ahead on that score :) )

    Also, keep checking back as I'm hoping Anncetera and Skyron and some others of our very experienced foster mums, will see this thread and be able to help, they are wonderful.

    Rehydration.
    Rehydration solutions are a mixture of glucose and electrolytes (essential mineral salts in balanced proportions). Rehydrate the kittens with glucose and electrolyte solution (e.g. Lectade, isotonic glucose) little and often. Initially give 1 - 1.5 ml (depending on kitten's size: roughly 1 ml per 100g bodyweight) every 20-30 minutes until the kitten is rehydrated and can urinate when massaged. Weak kittens will require tube-feeding. When its condition improves, gradually increase the amount and decrease the frequency. If all goes well, diluted milk can then be introduced after 24 hours, and full strength milk 24 hours after that. For severe dehydration, parenteral (injected) fluids must be administered by a veterinary surgeon. Constipation will require an enema administered by the vet.

    To make an emergency rehydration mixture: 500 ml cooled boiled water, 12 grams glucose powder, quarter teaspoon salt, pinch of sodium bicarbonate. It can be stored for 24 hours in a refrigerator. Electrolyte solution can be fed by itself for up to 24 hours after which a 50/50 mixture of electrolyte/milk can be fed and the proportion of milk gradually increased to 100%.

    Posted 1 year ago by jcat #

18. 

    My prayers are with you--what a wonder you have been to these little ones.

    Posted 1 year ago by SoxsMom #

19. 

    Just bought the pedialyte. I will have to ask my sister to get the Nutri-cal tomorrow when she comes back home from work. Right now I am heating up a bottle for the two kittens since it's just about their feeding time. So far, the little female has been moving about here and there within her tank so that's perked up my mood a bit. I'm hoping with enough pedialyte and some nutri-cal when I get it, she will spring back up and be just as healthy as her brother seems to be.

    Thank you so very much with everything everyone has given me, (specially JCat). I will write back with an update if I see a change with the little girl (or her brother for that matter). Thank you all again so much.

    Posted 1 year ago by calico_grey #

20. 

    We are all pulling for you and the little ones, Calico, you are doing a wonderful thing for these babies!

    Posted 1 year ago by jcat #

21. 

    Good job, CG. It sounds like the little female is putting up a good fight. :)

    Posted 1 year ago by Kitten Whisperer #

22. 

    Outstanding news/update:

    It is 6:21am right now and unbelievably the little female is wandering around the tank and pushing her brother! It's a good sign to me since before she remained in one spot only and looked rather dead at times!!! She is even beginning to cry VERY lightly but I take this as another outstanding sign of her recovery.

    I was giving her an extremely light dosage of the pedialyte every 30 minutes to an hour since last night, but I fell asleep for a good 3 hours. I wake up now to find her squirming around to the other side of the tank and fighting off her much healthier and stronger brother and crying lightly...without a doubt, she's hungry.

    Prayers, please, for this little one to fully recover and spring back completely!

    Posted 1 year ago by calico_grey #

23. 

    Ohmigosh, that's a GREAT sign, they put you on a real rollercoaster these little ones but let's hope she's doing better, it really sounds like it. Hoping so much your little girl scampers out of the woods! Hope she noms up a storm!

    Posted 1 year ago by jcat #

24. 

    I can't seem to get my hands on nutri-cal! ><;; My petsmart amazingly doesn't carry it for kittens, just cats. I've also never seen/heard of the Karo brand but I will check my local store for it.

    By the way, my friend and I were wondering if it's possible to give a very small dose of honey for energy? I'm not sure about that because isn't honey bad for babies? I would assume it's just as bad for kittens this young, no?

    Posted 1 year ago by calico_grey #

25. 

    Honey is bad for cats/kittens. Can you check with a vet about giving the cat version of NutriCal to your kitten?

    I found a kitten version of NutriCal on a website here: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3378&cmpid=02cseaz&ref=4144&subref=AA
    It might be possible to get it overnighted to you.

    Here are some other sources, one of which is KMart: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Tomlyn+nutriCal+for+kittens&oe=UTF-8&cid=10354756145106902007&os=sellers#

    Great news on the kitten's improvement. You are doing a great job! :)

    Posted 1 year ago by Kitten Whisperer #

26. 

    The little male is colic, without a doubt. He eats in a matter of seconds an entire tablespoon if I don't pull back the bottle. Doing so causes him to wail EXTREMELY loud and repeatedly but if he's not trying to drown himself he's suckling way too fast and WAY too much. He's a bit fussy, so I've been returning to him now and then to burp him and make him defecate.

    As for the little girl, she's not eating nearly as much as I would like but she's still eager to eat and she's still moving around. Not a whole lot but it's much more then she was yesterday night. The hole in the nipple is alright and her suckle reflex is just fine. Her ears twitch constantly. (actually, her ears twitch and her brother's don't!)

    I'm not sure how much one would feed a kitten this young but I definitely know the little boy is eating way too much way too fast. On the other hand I'm wondering if the little female is eating the correct amount or too little. Unfortunately, I don't have all the measuring tools to check other then what's marked on the small bottle I'm feeding them with. This morning though, the female did eat a bit so perhaps I should not be concerned with the little amount she took from me an hour ago.

    Also, I will call my vet about the nutrical for cats. I will also ask them if their office has the one for kittens because if that's the case, I will just buy from them since none of my pet stores around here carry it. (Ty for the links by the way!)

    Edit: By the way, which kind of karo syrup? Is it the Light Karo corn syrup or the dark?

    Posted 1 year ago by calico_grey #

27. 

    Hi CG...that is great news to hear the little femsle is starting to bounce back. Have you continued to check for tenting on her to make sure she is hydrated enuf? It can turn in an instant almost. If I recall,it's the light Karo syrup. I even bought a bottle myself in case I need it for my 18 yr.old Buddy who was injured by a raccon & then developed plugged up bowels. Some else I tried worked & he's on the mend.
    I never got far enuf w/the Karo to get a dose. I'm sorry I'm not as much help. My circumstances over the yrs. of rescuing just never gave me the situation your in so I haven't many suggestions.
    I big Thank You tho for your efforts in helping these 2 survive.

    Posted 1 year ago by feral #

28. 

    I have been checking the female for rehydration. Her skin still tents but it doesn't seem as "pastey" as it was last night. Do you mean this is why she's not eating as much right now?

    And no worries. lol I realize I've been pestering the lot of you all with this situation. I'm still very thankful for everyone's answers, questions, advise, and suggestions. (Ty concerning the Karo syrup.)

    Posted 1 year ago by calico_grey #

29. 

    CG...if she's still tenting,she still needs the extra fluids. I would continue w/them as you've been doing until she no longer is tenting.
    And,please...don't even think your pestering us here. If you only knew how many times I've jumped on here panic-stricken & crying about one cat or another & that's what makes this site so purrfect...it has beautiful people that are willing to help our fellow family whenever they need it. They're great listeners when you need emotional support. That's why I love them so much.
    Other than hoping 1 of the others comes on that can give you more suggestions,it's all I can offer you that you continue to hydrate her. Best of luck...& welcome meowmy to the world of kittens. You never stop worrying about them,even after they're all grown up. :)

    Posted 1 year ago by feral #

30. 

    YES, Susie's right, keep up with the fluids. If she's still tenting, that's the most important thing. I wouldn't hesitate to use the nutrical for cats if you can't get the version for kittens, how different can they be? It would still be better than the Karo. (I don't think it matters, light or dark Karo, except that the dark may taste stronger to the kitten and she may not like it. Dark would be less processed and probably retain more nutrients but light may be easier and faster for her to digest. Check the bottles for ingredients.) Here in NZ, we rarely get that kind of choice anyway, it's only in the last few years they've started making special canned kitten food here, kittens got fed exactly the same as cats before that and seemed to do okay.

    You're doing amazingly. Just keep on doing what you're doing and work with what you have. That little girl couldn't have a better meowmy. And don't hesitate to jump back on here with any more questions. {{{HUGS to you and the kitties}}}

    Posted 1 year ago by jcat #

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