George bit me on the leg 2 nights ago because he wanted my spot on the bed, and now he just bit me on the arm while I was on the computer (I *never* hear him coming; I think I need to put a bell on him). Needless to say, I'm really tired of this.
Daily Kitten Chat Forum » General Chat
Another day, another cat bite - Kilroy
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oh my gosh! What is his problem? Have you ever thought about checking with one of those "cat whisperers"? I assume they must have cat behaviorists. He must have some reason for fixating on you alone! A bell would work if he has a collar. I don't blame you for being tired of this...I would actually be afraid of him, not knowing :(
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He doesn't have a collar, but I'd be willing to put one on him if it meant I could put a bell on him. The bell might drive Mr. K nuts, though.
I wish I knew what his deal is; he can be perfectly calm and loving with me, but only when Mr. K's not around. The biting when I'm at the computer, I'm pretty sure, means "pay attention to me", but I would have if I'd heard him! I was halfway keeping an eye out for him and he still sneaked up on me :(
And yes, I spend a fair amount of time being afraid of my cat. Not exactly what I had in mind when I brought him home.
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Could it be that that is a way he has learned to get your attention with? Otherwise i would venture a guess that he thinks he's ''dominant'' over you - alpha's in cat groups always bite their inferiors, out of the blue, to remind them of who's the boss. Its sometimes even done in a loving, affectionate way, when cats submit to the alpha to be groomed, he'll bite them, but not to hurt them. If this is the case, i would say completely ignore him for a few weeks, even 'fight' with him when he approaches you for affection. You have to take back dominance in your relationship with him. He has to earn your repsect and affection back. ( . . . I sound stark raving mad . . .)
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I'm so sorry kilroy! I do get bit occasionally by one of mine, usually when I'm petting her and she just decides she's had enough...strikes like a snake. If he'll wear a collar, you could just put the bell on when you are both home alone, so Mr K is not freaked out. Again, you live in a huge city, I'm sure there are behaviorists who might have an answer (or suggestion)
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No you don't Sky, and I appreciate the feedback. Problem is, I'm responsible for him, for feeding him and cleaning out his box, etc, so I can't just ignore him. I definitely can't ignore him when he sneaks up on me, I react purely out of instinct, so even if I'm squirting him with the squirt bottle, he's still getting attention. Plus, if I try to "fight" with him I get bitten more. He absolutely does not back off from me, but if Mr. K asserts himself, George runs away.
Mr. K is defintely the alpha in the household, but I'm pretty sure George thinks he comes next.
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Maybe when he bits you, you can put him into a small room (bathroom?) for half an hour. Don't holler or jump (or at least try not to). Just pick him up and carry him to his time out place, shut the door and walk away.
Posted 1 year ago by CheetahBoysmommy #
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Kilroy, I think Sky is exactly right!..... he is showing his dominance, and he's learned it gets your attention!..... in my past experience, ignoring them when they do bite went a long way, I also recommend a strong and firm "NO!".... that way he learns that the behavior is something you don't like........ I know it's hard to 'ignore' them, but give it a try...... and the "NO!" works well (I've found) for any behavior that isn't allowed - i.e. biting, jumping up on counters, playing in the toilet.... etc!..... good luck!
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What i meant by 'ignore' him, i meant emotionally. Obviously you still have to provide for his needs, but do it as a matter of routine, not from an emotional space of affection. If he approaches you for affection, walk away. If he gets up on your lap, push him off. Its very important that you dont react with any kind of emotion when he bites you - like you said, even if you respond negatively, he's still getting attention. So just walk away. Or push him off. Perhaps you can watch a few episodes of dog whisperer, and see how cesar blocks dogs from approaching him. It actually works very well with cats too, only they dont necessarly submit at the end of the exercise, they're small enough to run/get under things, but you'd still have made your point.
Have you ever considered getting george a friend? Maybe if he can be dominant over a younger cat, or demand 24/7 attention from someone/something other than you, it might be easier on you as well?
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Some years ago I had a wonderful cat who was very alpha. He pushed open the screen door and moved in one day, so I have no idea how old he was when he came, but certainly he was an adult cat. He was also very large, about 18 lbs. He must have really ruled the roost in his former home, because he was quite insistent on having his own way--he woke us up in the morning when he wanted breakfast. If we shut the bedroom door, he pounded on it--that sort of thing. Strangest of all, he would start kneading on something and get very wound up, so that he would hiss, bite, or scratch you if you interrupted him. I wound up having to scruff him a number of times before he finally knocked it off. He howled and hissed, but would finally submit. Then I would let him up andd act as if nothing had happened. After a few weeks, we worked the dominance order out and got along fine ever after. We had him for 15 years, so he must have been quite elderly when he passed away and we never had any other issues. Maybe that would work for your cat? Sounds as if he just doesn't get what appropriate behavior is.
Posted 1 year ago by Tripleransom #
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If George acknowledges Mr. K as alpha maybe Mr. K should be the one who tells him "NO" when George is bad to you.
Posted 1 year ago by CheetahBoysmommy #
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Sorry to disappear, folks. Thank you all for all the suggestions, I really appreciate it.
Sky, I just did what you suggested and he's already meowing for attention (hasn't tried biting, yet). ''
AV, unfortunately, NO from me doesn't have much of an effect, and I can't really count on Mr. K to yell at him for me (what if he's not here? Plus he doesn't always get what's going on until I've gotten really scared & upset, then he'll intervene).
I think we're about to head to bed, so if I disappear again, that's why. I'll check back in the morning, and I really do appreciate all the suggestions and support.
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Kilroy, I am so sorry.... Georgie has been so good for so long. I know that our little girls suffered when we went on vacation and then came home only to leave again. Today I was sitting with Windi and she kept nipping my arm. It is the only way that she knows how to show affection. Could it be that with Georgie?
Posted 1 year ago by WillowandWindismom #
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Kilroy, Don't know if this helps or not.....
http://messybeast.com/nervous.htm
Pent-up Energy and Re-Directed Aggression
Most forms of aggression are reactive aggression - the cat reacts to a perceived threat. Occasionally, cats display proactive aggression i.e. attacking the owner for no apparent reason. The usual form is for the cat to attack the owner as the owner walks past or to prevent the owner from reaching certain parts of the house.
A lovely male Birman was taken to a cat shelter due to attacking its owner's legs. This indoor-only cat had become such a problem that his owner was forced to wear wellington boots in the house to protect her ankles from the cat's teeth and claws. The owner took to carrying a water pistol and squirting the cat whenever he attacked, but this did not reduce the behaviour. The cat was rehomed to someone who threw balls of crumpled paper to distract the cat each time it attacked. It was also given access to an enclosed garden where it proved an adept hunter. Although the behaviour did not completely go away, redirecting the aggression reduced it to a manageable level.
Re-directed aggression is more often found in indoor-only cats (and contributes to them being declawed in some countries). They can see birds, animals and other cats through the windows and become excited and fidgetty, but they cannot get to the things that excite them. They need to get rid of the pent up energy or frustration. If the owner happens to he walking past, the movement can trigger the hunting instinct or trigger defensive aggression resulting in an attack. Making cats "hunt" or "work" for their food can provide an outlet for this natural behaviour and is used to good effect in zoos. You can make a cat work for its food by hiding food treats around the house or in puzzle toys that have to be rolled around in order to release pieces of kibble (dry cat food). This is much more stimulating than simply presenting the food in a bowl. Environmental enrichment is essential for indoor cats: climbing posts, high ledges to rest on, dens and varying the toys that are available (to prevent boredom). Interactive play with fishing toys is also recommended.
In the cases of Pedro and Silver, their owner-oriented aggression vanished once the cats were able to vent their hunting instinct on the local rabbit and rodent populations. Pedro became a farm cat and Silver was homed to an adults-only household with ample access to fields. These energetic and intelligent cats were not psychologically equipped to cope with an indoor-only lifestyle and no amount of interactive play or fancy climbing posts could resolve that. Cats evolved as outdoor predators and some cats inherit genes that programme them for this sort of lifestyle. Owners used to indoor-only cats have a hard time understanding that not all cats cope well with confinement, however luxurious the surroundings.
Ambush behaviour and "leg-hugging" is also found in play. Affy, a large domestic longhair had the habit of attacking my legs when I went to or from the bathroom. With plenty of other outlets for her energy, these "attacks" did not involve teeth or claws, but ended up with Affy hugging my lower leg in a behaviour nicknamed "wildebeesting" (because it was much the same as a lion jumping on and "hugging" a wildebeest to bring it down). Plenty of toys and access to a garden ensured that the ambush remained a play behaviour restricted to a single location and was considered harmless, albeit slightly inconvenient during a midnight bathroom visit.
Rough Play
Kittens and young cats often get overexcited while playing. Used to the protective fur of their siblings, they have to learn that human skin is more easily damaged and to restrain the teeth and claws. Unfortunately, many owner inadvertently encourage rough play by letting kittens attack hands and feet. While kittens are small, owners find their attacks on hands and feet amusing. As the kitten grows up, it becomes stronger and its teeth and claws are more effective. Such play then becomes painful, but as far as the cat is concerned the owner likes this sort of play. Chastising the cat doesn't help as this can be seen as part of the game you have trained it to enjoy! Luckily, most kittens and their owners instinctively grow out of rough cat-on-human play and switch to playing with toys instead.
Oscar was a young cat used to playing with toys and wrestling very gently with hands (no teeth or claws, just clasping and licking). When his owner went on holiday, she left her brother in charge of Oscar. The brother (also a cat lover) discovered that Oscar liked wrestling with hands so he put on a leather glove and encouraged Oscar to let rip. Of course, Oscar loved the game as he no longer had to control his teeth and claws. Unfortunately, by the time his owner returned, Oscar had learnt to play very rough. It took several weeks to undo the change and to return Oscar to being a cat that only let rip with toys, but remained calm and controlled with hands. Hand-wrestling is no longer allowed because Oscar tends to revert to rough play mode. The owner's brother has also been re-trained.
The more you play rough, the more hyped up the cat gets. Once established, it can be a hard cycle to break. If rough play becomes a problem, you have to stop rewarding the behaviour. As soon as the kitten bites or scratches, stop providing attention. Either sit quietly, ignoring it, or walk away and leave it alone to calm down. Give plenty of calm attention when the kitten is behaving in a more gentle manner. Energetic interactive play should be switched to fishing-rod type toys that let you keep your hands and feet clear of teeth and claws. This way, your kitten learns to play rough with toys and to come to you for fuss.
Posted 1 year ago by AZDEBRA 5/27 & crew #
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I'm sorry George bit you Kilroy. Sounds like a bell is in his future.
Posted 1 year ago by JoanfromNewJersey #
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Owwww, sorry to hear Georgie is being George of the jungle & biting you! It sounds as if you have rec'd some good advice from Sky,CBM,Azdeb & Tri. Hope you can work things out for a collar w/bell plus Mr.K's help.(Crockey can be agressive at times & I just push him away big time & say an irritating NONONOOOOO!)It usually works!
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Pushing away doesn't help, saying no doesn't help, and Mr. K is usually no help until I've actually gotten bitten, and sometimes not even then.
Sorry, feeling really miserable today, between the George thing and Mr. K being a grump for who knows what reason this morning. Plus, my head hurts. I know all this doesn't add up to anything compared to what's going on in Christchurch and so many other places, but it's what's going on with me today. Sorry again.
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{{{Kilroy}}}
Posted 1 year ago by AZDEBRA 5/27 & crew #
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OY, hugs for you Kilroy...hmmm, you just said something that rang a bell...Mr K is no help until I've been bitten...maybe he needs to show more interest before hand in the behavior matter/2 alphas in same household! Gee, improving situation at home & feel better wishes for you too!
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Sorry Kilroy that you are feeling down. Jax is a bitey pants too. It most often means "pay attention to me NOW". He gets really irritated when I am on the phone or playing solitaire on the bed (he goes crazy). He also goes straight for my ankles when I go to the bathroom. sometimes I am in bed and he gets me right on the back of the arm on the arm fat. He never bites down just nips but it still hurts.
He really is a good, sweet kitty. It just seems that certain things get him bitey. He also likes to snuggle. It just seems like he never learned that my appendages are not toys. I dont have any advice but im sorry.
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This may sound crazy, but give it some thought. Since indoor only cats get so wound up sometimes and their fight or flight responses don't get stimulated, it can help them to provide that stimulation. What hubby and I sometimes do is wait until everyone is all quiet, but acting edgy and he will hop up and make a loud noise and give chase, (loudly and often in a silly voice). The kitties will jump and run and everyone gets that pent up energy in play...including hubby. Kitties know it he is playing with them as no one ever gets caught, but it does serve to fill that need in them.
Sounds weird, I know, but it works.
Posted 1 year ago by KYKAT 12 23 #
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{{{BIG HUGS}}}
Posted 1 year ago by MadcatwomanintheUK #
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