Daily Kitten Chat Forum » Purrs

1. 

   He cancelled the stress test that was scheduled for Friday morning.

   This is what I want to do. I want to type up a document for him to sign, stating that (1) he understands that his doctor wants him to have a stress test to rule out heart problems in view of discomfort he has had in his chest; (2) he refuses the stress test; (3) he understands that there is a possibility that heart problems may go undiagnosed because of this refusal; (4) he understands that any medical treatment for chest discomfort will be obtained at his own expense; (5) he releases the doctor from all responsibility for any harm that may come to him as a result of his refusing the test; and (6) he releases his wife from all responsibility for any harm that may come to him if he experiences chest discomfort but does not seek medical treatment because he does not want to have to pay for it. I would keep one copy of this document and give the other to the GP for his medical records.

   At least that would be honest. If he wants to refuse the procedure, just say so. Don't keep everyone dangling with this "now I will, now I won't" game.

   Posted 1 year ago by Leeny #

2. 

   Jeez Leeny I'm sorry to hear that but the document sounds like a good idea.

   Posted 1 year ago by Buttercup #

3. 

   I am hoping that the document will work. Is he ill enough that he can have some sort of conservatorship to take away his ability to make his own decisions? I hope the document will help Leeny. Continued prayers for you both.

   Posted 1 year ago by SoxsMom #

4. 

   Oh, Leeny. I'm sorry about this. I think the document is a good idea, but I wonder how binding it would be? Soxsmom had a good suggestion about a conservatorship, that might be worth looking into.

   {{{Leeny}}}

   Posted 1 year ago by Kilroy #

5. 

   No, he is not disabled enough to need a guardian. In fact, his biggest problem is that his whole identity is wrapped up in "being disabled"; he is really far more capable than he's usually willing to admit. I've seen him handle challenging situations very skillfully.

   The document is mainly intended to "wake him up" to the consequences of his choices, and encourage him to be honest with himself, the doctor, and me. After all, a responsible adult--and he has never been declared incompetent--has the right to refuse any medical procedure he does not want. Just take responsibility for the refusal and for anything that may happen because of it.

   Posted 1 year ago by Leeny #

6. 

   I think the document is a good idea. I don't think it can be a legally binding agreement though unless it is looked over by a lawyer, notarized and submitted to a local court. If it is to just make him think twice about things, then that isn't an issue.

   Posted 1 year ago by SylvesterMiasMomma #

7. 

   Didn't the doctor say that he would drop him as a patient if he didn't do this test? Noncompliance could cost him a doctor that doesn't wish to have patient that will not get required tests. I wish this was easier for you Leeny.

   Posted 1 year ago by SoxsMom #

8. 

   Sorry Leeny. I don't think signing a paper will change his attitude, but you might as well try.
   I don't have any words of wisdom here. He will do what he will do no matter what you say or do, obviously.
   Peace, hugs and purrs

   Posted 1 year ago by artistabobbi TX 1/17 #

9. 

   The doctor did say that, Soxsmom, but he didn't mean it. It was just a threat he used to try to get Mr. Leeny to comply.

   Posted 1 year ago by Leeny #

10. 

    He needs to mean it. He is teaching Mr. Leeny there are no consequences for his actions. Mr. Leeny will not change his behavior until he has to. Right now there are no negative consequences. The doctor said I will not see you any more if you do not do this test. Then he continues to see him anyway. It is just teaching Mr. Leeny that he can do whatever he wants and nothing will happing. Threats don't work to well if you are willing to follow through. I am really worried that the man will cause your health to decline. You are working so hard, and the stress of caring for Mr. Leeny must be enormous. Truly I worry so much more about you Leeny, please remember yourself too.

    Posted 1 year ago by SoxsMom #

11. 

    Leeny, I am going to tell you this as your friend and as a nurse. The document that you propose is good, but not legally binding. The better thing, at this point, would be for Mr. Leeny's physician to legally divorce him. That is allowed in medical practice for non-compliant patients. Although it would mean finding another physician for Mr. Leeny, perhaps being medically divorced would shake his world enough to show him that his present course is not the right one for anyone concerned. Having managed a surgical practice, I am sad to say that Mr. Leeny is exactly the type of patient that we would have legally divorced.

    Posted 1 year ago by WillowandWindismom #

12. 

    ((Leeny)) Others have already given great words of wisdom. I can offer no more than my hugs and prayers for you and Mr Leeny.

    Posted 1 year ago by 2 Popoki #

13. 

    What would shake him up, WWM, is having to find a new physician on his own, arrange for his own transportation there, and pay for services himself. I've already told Mr. Leeny that, if he gets himself thrown out of the GP's practice or if he himself gets mad and leaves when the GP tells him something he doesn't want to hear, this is what will happen. That's what led to his reconciliation with the doctor after his first cancellation.

    Just being dismissed from the practice wouldn't do much, I don't think. He's been dismissed from practices before and it didn't change anything.

    I believe Mr. Leeny knows that I, at least, do mean what I say. I never threaten, I never bluff, and I never say I'm going to do something if I'm not prepared to do it.

    Posted 1 year ago by Leeny #

14. 

    Leeny, A document like that wouldn't be binding on the doctor, but it's still a good idea even without that paragraph.

    You could make it a little more generic so that it said "I understand that my doctor orders tests for me, and prescribes medication and behaviours for me, in order to keep me healthy." "When I refuse or cancel appointments, I understand that I am putting my health at risk and I am taking full responsibility for whatever bad happens to me."

    That way he would be taking responsibility for any future medical problems of any type.

    Make a copy to hang by the phone(s) so Mr. Leeny will see it every time he calls someone (doctor to cancel or EMT's for transport).

    Posted 1 year ago by CheetahBoysmommy #

15. 

    Leeny this is going to be worst on you. I can't stop thinking about the hardship this is placing on you. It is so obvious that you love him. You have done this on your own from what I can tell. I wish more than anything you had more support for you. Have to wonder if CBM doesn't have the best idea. If Mr. Leeny is required to look at what he signed when he goes to cancel an appointment maybe it would be enough to change his mind. Leeny I hope that someday he is able to see how you have cared for him and I hope he appreciates you.

    Posted 1 year ago by SoxsMom #

16. 

    Leeny, so sorry to hear the latest on Mr. Leeny's actions, everyone has such good advice for you, wish you luck with all of this. Bless you, you have more patience than I would have. {{{hugs}}}

    Posted 1 year ago by AZDEBRA 5/27 & crew #

17. 

    The long and short of it is, Leeny - you cannot force a patient to be compliant. Until he sees the need, probably nothing that you say or do will make a difference. Ultimately, it is up to each of us to take responsibility for our actions.

    Posted 1 year ago by WillowandWindismom #

18. 

    So true, WWM, so true.

    Posted 1 year ago by Leeny #

19. 

    I'm so sorry, Leeny. I have seen family members in your position so often. It is harder on you than Mr. Leeny because you are fully aware of the consequences. I wish that I could do more than just keeping you in my prayers.

    Posted 1 year ago by WillowandWindismom #

20. 

    {{HUGS}} to you Leeny and prayers for you for strength and for Mr. Leeny for wisdom.

    Posted 1 year ago by Shelley #

21. 

    You are in my prayers, Leeny. {{{hugs}}}

    Posted 1 year ago by Kitten Whisperer #

22. 

    Sorry Leeny, I wish I had a magic wand. You can't help anyone who does not want to help themselves. I know this must be terribly trying on you.

    Posted 1 year ago by Tigerlilly #

23. 

    Leemy, you know this behavior is rooted in fear, correct? Fear of the test itself, and fear of what they might find, and fear of the findings precipitating procedures and expenses he doesn't want to face. No, he's probably not thought it through in those words. But your "lizard" brain moves faster than your slow, plodding, talking higher brain.

    I don't think a contract will have much positive impact, but might have a serious backlash. Every time he sees it at the phone, etc., it will humiliate him and humiliation puts distance between the two of you.

    His male programming will then slam on the brakes...then he may never go for the test. He knows he should do it, and he knows why. He also knows he should do it for you. But maybe it's not a matter of he won't. It's a matter of he's so scared that he can't.

    In my opinion, a better tactic is to stand back, not mention it for a while, and then help him think it was his idea. And the very best way to to that is for him to see his same-age, same-sex peers going for self-care tests, i.e., prostate exams, colonoscopies, stress tests, regular checkups, etc.

    This may be no help at all, but if I were trying to get a male to take care of himself, that is where I'd start.

    Keep us posted, please. We care. I care.

    Posted 1 year ago by lisaeylau #

24. 

    Do you think maybe if you get the "daughter" involved it would help? I know that relationship is not good with her, but if you maybe call her and tell her you have done everything you can to get him there and he wont go..It is now up to you..(just a thought)

    Posted 1 year ago by 2bpurring #

25. 

    Leeny, you cannot make him do anything. It's apparent that no matter what his decisions are in life, he is insulated from any potentially negative consequences. He will probably not start making different decisions unless some negative consequences start resulting from his actions.

    I'm sorry to think that one of the consequences of his actions might be death, but he really needs to own his decisions - and their consequences. Likewise, his doctor needs to be acutely aware of the potential issues inherent in keeping a patient who is so utterly uncompliant with the professional recommendations.

    If this means Mr. Leeny has to shop around for a new doctor, so be it.
    If this means Mr. Leeny has to take financial responsibility for the next emergency room visit he incurs, so be it.
    If this means Mr. Leeny suffers serious health consequences from refusal to follow professional recommendations, so be it.

    I'm so sorry for you. But Mr. Leeny is responsible for his own actions. You are not.

    Posted 1 year ago by anncetera2 #

26. 

    While a document of this type is not binding, it may protect you from being held legally responsible for any consequences of Mr Leeny's intractability. I also think you should insist on him obtaining a DNR. You could find yourself with a vegetative dependent if he does not have one.

    Posted 1 year ago by ailuromaniac #

27. 

    Anncetera2, you just said the part I didn't have the huevos to add.

    Posted 1 year ago by lisaeylau #

28. 

    Leeny, it sounds as if what really needs to happen is that Mr. Leeny's doctor needs to dismiss him as a patient.

    What needs to happen after that, is that you need to stand firm by your statements.

    If Mr. Leeny wants further non-emergency medical care, that he will need to find the doctor, make the appointment, arrange for transportation, and pay the physician's office at the end of the appointment. He will also need to handle any further arrangements for follow-up testing, lab work, transfer of patient files, etc.

    He's a big boy - and you have the patience and love of a saint. It's long past time for him to assume responsibility for his actions. I have no doubt that you will follow through with your promises.

    (They're not threats - they're promises.)

    Posted 1 year ago by anncetera2 #

29. 

    This means you might also need to distance yourself from his decisions, emotionally. If he's released as a patient by his doctor, and then he asks you what you think he should do, your reply might be something like, "Well, that's really not up to me. That's up to you. You already know what I think."

    Posted 1 year ago by anncetera2 #

30. 

    (((((Leeny))))

    Posted 1 year ago by KYKAT 12 23 #

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